FF7 riddles

[redxiiii]

Shield materia, mega all materia?

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

I don't care about the shield or mega all materia.

Due to the several paths in the Northern Crater, there is no specific order where you pick up items. But, my riddle still holds, b/c it doesn't matter what order you picked up stuff in the Northern Crater. No matter what you do in the Northern Crater, the second to last of a specific kind of something you find will be part of the second totally different thing you collect, in context of the whole entire game (except for sidequests).

All you have to do is start a new game and play through the first reactor mission! After it blows up, you say, "Okay, I definitely did everything I can do in here. Hmm, let's go through 2nds."

If you get an answer that doesn't help you, if it's the same as "the first," that doesn't count, as I pointed out earlier.

[gismo]

is it the dark mater?my logic on this is way wrong an half asleep so not readin ya hints well enuf but dark mater is the second to last materia to be used at the end, as Holy is the last, and as to the second found, in the ancients temple u find bahamut summon first, if i remember right (might b wrong as not played in years an my PS n players guide is in attic as room is empty at min)

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

Is Dark Matter in FFVII? Maybe that's in the Japanese version.

Did I say "use?" I thought I said "found."

Okay, let's organise our hints here.

Path 1: You use the first part of the riddle to get the second part, which is the answer. I remember I said all you need to do is replay the first reactor bombing, doing and getting everything, then search through "seconds." The second type of something is during this event. If you know what it is, it will be sooooo obvious what the answer is.

Path 2: Solve the hint directly by ignoring the first part of the riddle, and follow the hints provided here. We've narrowed it down to a materia. Definitely, the answer is the second to last specific materia you find, assuming you do everything except for sidequests. The North Crater has several paths, making doing stuff in there random, but that does not affect this riddle. No matter what order you get everything in the crater, you will follow my riddle. As I stated before, if you fail some things in the whole game, the riddle may not work out. You must succeed exactly four times, where it is possible to fail.

EDIT: I should probably rewrite the riddle b/c I realise some of this is vital to solving the riddle.

"I am part of the second thing found,
And I am the second to last of something different found.
For this be true, one must succeed four times
When one may fail.
Be narrow-minded but thorough,
And you will realise what I am."

[redxiiii]

Steal or cure materia?

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

Let me clarify something. Specific type of materia, I mean. Not specific materia.

What worried me above? Okay, let's start eliminating. The Norther Crater did not worry me at all. I didn't remember what you collected, but I knew that it did not affect my riddle. In fact, you can eliminate everything in The Northern Crater b/c of that, so don't guess anything else from the North Crater.

Area #47 - The Crater (revisited) / Final Encounter

[. . .]

-> [Materia] [. . .] HP Absorb Materia [. . .] Shield Materia [. . .] W-Magic Materia, Counter Materia [. . .] Magic Counter [. . .] Mega-All Materia,

Hmm, that comma at the end worries me. I hope it's complete. I also notice 3 blue materia.

Let me teach you proof by contradiction. I do it in my math classes sometimes.

Assume solution is blue materia.
Second to last blue materia you collect is unaffected by whatever you do in the North Crater.
But, there are three blue materia in the North Crater.
--><--
.'. All blue materia are not a solution.


RED: how is Steal or Cure part of the second thing found of something else? Also, is cure the 2nd to last green materia you find, skipping sidequests?

[redxiiii]

Sorry weimar I was just to tierd and about to give up, I`ll guess again, ermmm,holy or black materia

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

Come on, Red. You can do it.

(Yeah, I'd be tired too if I stayed up until six. You in Eastern Time Zone? I am pretty tired, too, for studying until 3 AM last night.)

Okay, back to the riddle. I think Holy and Black Materia were already guesses, and I said they were wrong. Well, for some reason the person called the Black Materia "Dark Matter," but Black Materia when you call it what it is is still wrong.

Just work backwards through the game. If there's only one yellow materia at the crater, maybe the answer is a yellow materia. (Not "yellow or command materia," but one of them.) Just go back through the game until you get the 2nd to last one. Proof by contradiction helps. So if you follow a kind of materia backwards, you have to make sure it passes the first part of the riddle. Like "Okay, maybe it's W-item. It should pass the first part of the riddle." If it doesn't, you draw crashing arrows on your paper and follow another type of materia backwards. If you can figure out how it passes the first part of the riddle, then you win.

I don't know how another materia could pass my riddle, but if it one exists, and you say why, you win, and I'll tell you what one I intended.

But, the one I intend passes the first part of the riddle quite obviously. So, for those of you trying to start with the first part of the riddle-- like I sort of said earlier, just play through the first reactor bombing again collecting everything, and the answer will be right in front of you at some point. Remember, the second something is not something that the answer is, but the answer is "part" of the thing in the reactor.

Good luck, y'all!

[redxiiii]

Hp absorb?

[PhoenixAsh]

I'll go with Ultima. I can't actually remember whether you get it in the reactor or not, but I'm pretty sure you get Restore there, or near there. This would be the second materia you find, it happens to be magic. Shield would be the final magic materia, and that leaves it as either Full-Cure or Ultima. As Ultima is the one that can be failed in several different ways I guess that.

I know some of that logic doesn't necessarily fit the riddle, and Ultima doesn't seem as obvious as it might, but I just read every hint from the original clue in one go and now I'm too tired to think.

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

Red, I just proved to you that no blue materia is the answer, and nothing in the crater is the answer. Why would you pick that?

Pheonix Ash, I am impressed with your critical thinking, but Ultima wasn't what I was looking for. Unfortunately, I cannot reward you with a statement that you solved the riddle.

This is basically what I want you to do. If the answer is S, you have to say, "S is the second to last T materia you get, and S is part of the second totally different type of thing you collect in the game, which is X, and X is a(n) x. The ambiguous phrase "part of" refers to how E." "S"="the answer," "T"="type of materia", "X"="the second thing you collect blah blah blah," "x"="what that thing is, like materia, armor, weapon, etc.", and "E"="explanation of what 'part of' means."

So, Pheonix Ash thinks the answer is Ultima. So, he needs to fill in the logic variables with support as to why Ultima is the answer. So, "Ultima is the second to last magic materia you get, and Ultima is part of the second totally different type of thing you collect in the game, which is ______, and ______ is a(n) ______. The ambiguous phrase "part of" refers to how ______________." If he can't fill in the blanks, then he needs to come up with a different materia.

Succeeding four times does not mean you will not collect the answer, but it will make the riddle untrue. You don't have to explain this, but you may, since if you have the answer I'm looking for, you'll know what these are.

Some errors in PA's logic is that Restore is the first materia you collect, not counting ones pre-equipped onto the Buster Sword. I also, I would call Full-Cure something you get in a sidequest, since there's not much of an obligation to get it at a certain time. I am defining sidequest as anything you do where the story wants you some place else. If the story isn't at Cosmo Canyon where an item becomes available then, don't worry about it since it contributes to variable order.

If proving it seems hard, if you have the answer I'm looking for, it shouldn't be too hard to fill in all the blanks, as long as you have a pretty good memory of the game, so you have to know order of important stuff to collect, which probably isn't too hard. The stuff in the first reactor you probably have memorised since you've done that a lot more times than the rest of the game.

[PhoenixAsh]

Okay well in that case I think the answer must be Phoenix. A Summon materia, and I'm guessing it's the second if you ignore Bahamut ZERO, Hades, and Knights of the Round... Actually scrap that, I think ZERO would be the final one, making the four huge materias the ways to fail. The second item you get would then be Phoenix Down, of which Phoenix is part of the name.

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

All right, Pheonix Ash! You are the master of solving FFVII riddles.

I think I actually write too many hints, but I'm afraid the thread will go dead if I don't help.

Riddle away, PA. . .or not, if you don't want to.

[PhoenixAsh]

Thank you . The hints were fairly important there I thought, it was quite a tricky riddle to get from scratch, nicely complex to understand though.

I'm gonna give it to the next person who wants to make a riddle again, but I'll leave my old one up for solving still:

The sun stood alone, and did it's work.
It looked down at the world, the grass was calling for the aid of the gods.
The sea was cold, yet hot at once, it healed the earth.
Surprisingly,the plums rose up and led the way, they told the others what to do.

What did the blood do?

[redxiiii]

Not that riddle again I`m so but I still want to solve that riddle instead of another.
Hmmmmmmmmmm, is it to do with the jenova cells?