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Thread: "The American right strikes back"

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    Doc Skogs's Avatar
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    "The American right strikes back"

    I found this column on The Age's (daily newspaper in Melbourne) website. I think it raises some good points. So yeah, um, thoughts?

    Column by Jonathan Freedland in The Age, www.theage.com.au
    The American right strikes back

    March 19, 2004

    American conservatives were appalled by the reaction in some European quarters to September 11, a reaction crudely summarised as "America had it coming".

    They insisted it was grossly insensitive to attack the United States and its foreign policy while Ground Zero still smouldered. They were right and I took their side, urging people at least to pause awhile before adding greater hurt to an already traumatised nation.

    But look what's happening now. A matter of days after the event branded Europe's September 11, and American conservatives - including some of the very people who were so outraged by the criticisms hurled at the US in September 2001 - have started whacking not just Spanish policy, but the Spanish people.

    Witness David Brooks in Tuesday's New York Times, outraged that the Madrid bombings prompted Spanish voters to "throw out the old government and replace it with one whose policies are more to al-Qaeda's liking. What is the Spanish word for appeasement?" Right-wing blog artist Andrew Sullivan also raided the 1930s lexicon for the same, exhausted word: "It seems clear to me that the trend in Europe is now either appeasement of terror or active alliance with it. It is hard to view the results in Spain as anything but a choice between Bush and al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda won." Not to be outdone, former Bush speech-writer David Frum, the man who coined "axis of evil", sighed at the weakness of the Spanish: "People are not always strong. Sometimes they indulge false hopes that by lying low, truckling, appeasing, they can avoid danger and strife ... And this is what seems to have happened in Spain."

    Perhaps this is how the Butroutes hope to avenge what they saw as European insensitivity two-and-a-half years ago, by defaming the Spanish even as Madrid still weeps. But this assault should not go unanswered if only because, if allowed to settle in the public mind, it will widen yet further the already yawning trans-Atlantic gulf of misunderstanding.

    Perhaps this is how the Butroutes hope to avenge what they saw as European insensitivity two-and-a-half years ago, by defaming the Spanish even as Madrid still weeps.

    Put aside the imprecision (and worse) that comes with the abuse of the word "appeasement": the menace of al-Qaeda is real and serious enough without making hyperbolic comparisons to the Third Reich.

    Focus instead on the two grave errors that underlie this latest argument from the right. One is a misunderstanding of democracy, the other is a failure to make crucial distinctions.

    The first mistake is the more surprising, for no word is invoked more often in support of the "war on terror" than democracy. Yet these insults hurled at the Spanish show a sneaking contempt for the idea. For surely the Spanish did nothing more on Sunday than exercise their democratic right to change governments. They elected the Socialist party; to suggest they voted for al-Qaeda is a slur not only on the Spanish nation but on the democratic process itself, implying that when terrorists strike political choice must end.

    It is a bid to reshape the political landscape, so that parties of the right stand on one side and all the rest are lumped in with al-Qaeda. The tactic is McCarthyite, the natural extension of the bullying insistence that, in President Bush's own words: "You are either with us or you're with the terrorists." If that is the choice, then there is no choice: it is a mandate for a collection of one-party states.

    But this is not the heart of the matter. The right's greater error is its failure to distinguish between the war against al-Qaeda and the war on Iraq. About 90 per cent of the Spanish electorate were against the latter; there is no evidence that they were, or are, soft on the former.

    On the contrary, there have been two mass demonstrations of Spanish opinion in the past few days: let no one forget that 36 hours before the election, about 11 million Spaniards took to the streets to swear their revulsion at terrorism. It takes some cheek to accuse a nation like that of weakness and appeasement.

    The Spaniards showed they knew the difference between the struggle against al-Qaeda and the conflict in Iraq. It is hardly a shock that this distinction is lost on the likes of Frum and company: the Bush Administration worked tirelessly to conflate the two, constantly melding Saddam and September 11 even though the President himself has had to admit no evidence links the two.

    The Spanish electorate were not voting for a cave-in to al-Qaeda. On the contrary, many of those who opposed the war in Iraq did so precisely because they feared it would distract from the more urgent war against Islamist fanaticism. (Witness the US military resources pulled off the hunt for bin Laden in Afghanistan and diverted to Baghdad.)

    Nor was it appeasement to suggest that the US-led invasion of an oil-rich Muslim country would make al-Qaeda's recruitment mission that much easier.

    Of course, this is not to argue that if only the war had not happened then bin Laden and his henchmen would have laid down their arms. Al-Qaeda's leaders are murderous, guilty of the most wicked acts; nothing we can do will reach them.

    But that is not true of the many thousands, perhaps millions, drawn to the message of extreme Islamism; the people who would never plant bombs, but might cheer when they go off. These are the hearts and minds that have to be won over if the war on terror is ever to be won.

    To assert that the conflict over Iraq made that task harder is not a surrender; it is a statement of the obvious.

    It may be comforting, but this struggle cannot be won by painting the world in black and white, with America as the good guy and everyone else cast as terrorists or their allies. It will require nimble, subtle thinking - constantly making awkward but essential distinctions.

    So, yes, it is quite true that al-Qaeda will be chillingly gratified by the Spanish result but, no, that does not mean that Spaniards voted for al-Qaeda. Similarly, it is quite possible to be strongly opposed to the Iraq adventure and militantly in favour of the war against bin Laden - indeed the two sentiments can be strongly linked.

    There is a difference, too, between appeasing men of violence and seeking to limit their appeal, just as the leaders of global terror must be separated from those who could become their followers. Islam is no monolith, nor is the West, and all the fine gradations within these categories matter enormously.

    The world has never looked more like a complex knot, and it will take precision and patience to untangle it. Wrenching away at it in fury will only make the problem harder - and our lives more dangerous.

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    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    I'd not be surprised if this writer is immediately branded as an "anti-American" terrorist sympathiser. That's what often happens when you take an objective look at such things, or if you simply don't share the US president's opinion on a matter.

    That was a thought-provoking piece, moreso because of its clear ring of truth. The US adminstration's standpoint has long been, "you must do what we say, but we don't have to because we're above our own rules". I think this point is demonstrated pretty well.

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    I am Henry Dean gokufusionss1's Avatar
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    you have to admit it does look like the spanish people bottled it, Al queda struck spain because they were saw as the weak link and they were right it's a victory for them.
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    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    Al Qaeda has struck a lot of countries - Kenya, Spain, the US. Doesn't mean that those countries are "weak losers".

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    Scatter, Senbonzakura... DocFrance's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Big D
    I'd not be surprised if this writer is immediately branded as an "anti-American" terrorist sympathiser. That's what often happens when you take an objective look at such things, or if you simply don't share the US president's opinion on a matter.
    Oh, yeah, that happens all the time. We'll probably try him and execute him, too.

    It is sad that Spain is backing out of support for "the war," and I do think that it is eerily similar to the appeasement right before WWII. However, it was the will of the people. Furthermore, I think we (the US) needs to stop pointing fingers and send over some foreign aid. It would certainly make us look a whole lot better.
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    If we are to draw analogies to appeasement before WWII, we could as well paint terrorists as communists (a semi-secret international group of people seeking to change the world), and Americans as, well, y'know hoo. Strong, hypocritical ideology-warfare (National socialist vs. Bolshevik, Islamic Fundamentalist vs. seemingly religious-rightist government), invasions of smaller countries, the Brittish PM trying to suck-up to the Über Kriegerfaren nation with "war-time leaders" etc. etc.





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    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DocFrance
    Oh, yeah, that happens all the time. We'll probably try him and execute him, too.
    Some groups in the US media often try to paint a very negative picture of countries that back off their support for US operations - just like the New York Times column mentioned in that article. This extends to accusations against individuals, i.e. journalists from other countries who portray their side of the matter.

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    Originally posted by DocFrance
    It is sad that Spain is backing out of support for "the war," and I do think that it is eerily similar to the appeasement right before WWII.
    That analogy makes absolutely no sense. I fail to see the relationship of the socialist visctory in spain to WWII, as well as how Spain backing out of the war is 'appeasement.'

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    American conservatives were appalled by the reaction in some European quarters to September 11, a reaction crudely summarised as "America had it coming".

    No one said Spain had the attacks coming. I think it's a faulty analogy to compare the kind of trash people said about America to the things people say about Spain today.

    No one is saying Spain "voted for al-Qaeda". al-Qaeda and various other groups are going to be happy with Spain's decision to get out of Iraq; this is fact. Spain was heavily on our side before their election, and not as much on our side after it; this is fact. Americans are going to be sad about that. Should we be happy that we just lost an ally? What's the appropriate way to respond? Should we rejoice in the streets? Pretend we don't care?

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    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dr Unne
    Spain was heavily on our side before their election, and not as much on our side after it; this is fact. Americans are going to be sad about that. Should we be happy that we just lost an ally? What's the appropriate way to respond? Should we rejoice in the streets? Pretend we don't care?
    So, it's a case of "if you're not with us, you're against us" then? Just because they're no longer going to provide direct support does not mean that they're any less of an ally in principle. There's a difference between "being an ally" and "helping to fight someone's illegal wars". The whole western world supports America as a nation; but very few countries will be willing to throw their soldiers into what they feel is an unjust cause. [q=Dr Unne]No one said Spain had the attacks coming. I think it's a faulty analogy to compare the kind of trash people said about America to the things people say about Spain today.

    No one is saying Spain "voted for al-Qaeda".[/q][q=Skogs]Witness David Brooks in Tuesday's New York Times, outraged that the Madrid bombings prompted Spanish voters to "throw out the old government and replace it with one whose policies are more to al-Qaeda's liking. What is the Spanish word for appeasement?" Right-wing blog artist Andrew Sullivan also raided the 1930s lexicon for the same, exhausted word: "It seems clear to me that the trend in Europe is now either appeasement of terror or active alliance with it. It is hard to view the results in Spain as anything but a choice between Bush and al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda won." Not to be outdone, former Bush speech-writer David Frum, the man who coined "axis of evil", sighed at the weakness of the Spanish: "People are not always strong. Sometimes they indulge false hopes that by lying low, truckling, appeasing, they can avoid danger and strife ... And this is what seems to have happened in Spain."[/q]Hmm. "No one" indeed.

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    Scatter, Senbonzakura... DocFrance's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Moose Knight
    That analogy makes absolutely no sense. I fail to see the relationship of the socialist visctory in spain to WWII, as well as how Spain backing out of the war is 'appeasement.'
    Then you might not know enough about pre-WWII history. Let me give you a quick lesson. Hitler wanted Czechoslovakia (the Sudetenland, in particular). Germany was ready to make a forceful invasion, but England and France wanted to prevent violence. So they held a meeting with Germany and signed a treaty that basically said that England and France would not intervene in the invasion of Czechoslovakia if Germany didn't invade any other countries. This was known as appeasement. Of course, Hitler never upheld the treaty and went on to invade Poland. England and France then finally pulled their heads out of their butts and decided to take a stand. If they had taken a stand earlier, a lot of bad things could have been prevented.

    Originally posted by Big D
    So, it's a case of "if you're not with us, you're against us" then? Just because they're no longer going to provide direct support does not mean that they're any less of an ally in principle. There's a difference between "being an ally" and "helping to fight someone's illegal wars". The whole western world supports America as a nation; but very few countries will be willing to throw their soldiers into what they feel is an unjust cause.
    The very definition of an ally is someone who lends support. So when Spain stops lending support for the war in Iraq, yes, they do become less of an ally to the US. Do you expect the US to show unconditional love to the entire world?
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    So, it's a case of "if you're not with us, you're against us" then? --Big D

    I said we lost an ally in the war, not that we gained an enemy.

    I take "voted for al-Qaeda" to mean voted in favor of al-Qaeda in some way. Spain chose to be neutral. Whether it's actually possible to be neutral is another matter, but no one's saying they're pro-terrorism.

    Just because they're no longer going to provide direct support does not mean that they're any less of an ally in principle.

    Principle doesn't mean very much of anything without action to back it up.

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    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dr Unne
    Principle doesn't mean very much of anything without action to back it up.
    Again, that appears to mean that you're not someone's ally unless you help fight their wars for them. Spain didn't contribute any forces to the Kosovo campaign during the Clinton presidency, yet none would have accused them of failing to be an ally for that purpose. If one country chooses to start a war, there's no onus on their allies to prove their allegiance by lending aid. After all, Britain and its former colonies fought World War Two without US assistance until 1941, but no-one could rightly say that America wasn't Britain's ally from 1939 till '41.
    If someone's "less of an ally" because they finally decide to withdraw troops from a conflict, then the end of every war is going to cause a lot of friction, unless everyone withdraws their troops simulataneously...

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    Considering that Bush is in office against the will of the majority (heck, he didn't even get the most votes, nevermind a majority), Bush would be hypocritical to expect Spain to respect the will of the people. Bush's very presidency is a mockery of Democracy. What other fair, and democratic election has the man with the most votes being turned away in favor of a man crowned by the supreme court? Bush is fighting against democracy in Iraq as well, considering that he won't allow a direct election because the people would want an Islamic government, and Bush is against theocracies. Iraq will get an election when the people agree to vote for Bush's favorite. Are people suprised that Bush doesn't want the will of the people respected in Spain? Nothing in Bush's reign as emperor thus far has truly supported democracy.
    Knock yourselves down.

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    Sadly, alliances are made to be broken. How long did America resent the British before finally deciding that we'd again be allies? Germany is sometimes still blamed for actions from decades ago. We SUPPORTED Saddam invading Iran, gave him intelligence and the like! I think it's almost impossible to stay allies with another country on every issue for every situation. Times change, people's opinions and wants change. We're all nations full of different people, with different views, so really, I think it's sort of arrogant to assume that we should have allies for everything America chooses to do.

    Indeed, it does seem tough to really agree with any policies that come from our government today. Don't know how many people heard about this, but the Bush administration created fake news commercials supporting their tax cuts and medicare bills, and ran them as legitimate news pieces right down to having a voice over say, "This is Cynthia Ryan reporting..." or some name like that, and it was all a big hoax. Does the Bush Administration really think we can't handle the truth? Isn't it about time to admit there aren't weapons in Iraq? Every day more and more stories are leaked out that only further discredit the people we have in power, so really, is anyone surprised that more and more of the world's population is changing there opinions about Bush and America itself. If we really are an Empire, which is still up for debate, then I'm predicting our downfall will not be pretty.

    That being said, I cannot extend enough of my sympathy to all those who were lost and hurt in these attacks. Anytime innocent lives are lost, it's a dark day. I hope this never occurs again, wishful thinking to be true, but I still hope for it.

    Also, Spain is still helping us on the "War on Terror", correct? so, aren't they still our allies in that respect?

    Just to prove that I'm not making up "Liberal" lies:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/15/politics/15VIDE.html


    Take care all.

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