Is America An Empire?

[The Captain]

Which certainly is Empirical behavior, is it not?

I'm joking of course. This debate has turned satirical. I made this thread because I wanted to see what other people thought. I know that there have recently been books published in England, France, Brazil, Australia, and Egypt that all argue America is indeed an Empire, so I was curious to see if people abroad truly feels much differently than US citizens.

What I've gotten is inconclusive replies and what I feel is a sort of concealed pretension and personal attacks from others, which isn't that fun to have.

Seriously, did Romans fancy they had an Empire at first? No, the citizens probably just went with the flow because their Emperor said so. If Bush declared America an Empire, would we fall in line too? That's a thought to ponder. There can be only personal responses, not large sweeping answers that completely rule out one side over the other. In the beginning of this country, you could argue that "Manifest Destiny" was certainly another fancy word for an Empire, as we took control of land, and claimed it for our own. There still seems to be a form of Manifest Destiny that lingers in that America feels it must get involved in everything and that "The American Way" must find its way into every country.

If I've offended anyone, I deeply apologize. This is obviously an issue that galvanizes some emotion from within. I sincerely hope we can all just have a real discussion about issues, not just jump down each others throats. There are no ridiculous questions, only ridiculous people who answer them, like myself.

Take care all.

EDIT: How about instead of saying "right" or "wrong", we say, "I'm justified in my belief because..."? It feels a lot less angry and might calm tension a bit. Just a thought.

[Emerald Aeris]

"Which certainly is Empirical behavior, is it not?"

Nope.

"What I've gotten is inconclusive replies and what I feel is a sort of concealed pretension and personal attacks from others, which isn't that fun to have."

Uh, me, Unne, and others have stated that it's not an empire because it does nothing to fit the definition of empire. I don't see how that counts as any of what you've listed above.


"Seriously, did Romans fancy they had an Empire at first?"

No, but they concurred other countries and ruled them. The US hasn't. That's a huge, huge difference.

"If Bush declared America an Empire, would we fall in line too? That's a thought to ponder."

I don't know what you mean. I really doubt that if Bush said that America was an empire, Martin (my Prime Minister) would go "Oh, ok, have my country." If by we you mean American citizens, well, that still wouldn't make the US an empire. It would just think it's one.

"There can be only personal responses, not large sweeping answers that completely rule out one side over the other."

I disagree, since this deals with the definition of a word. The word "empire" isn't ambiguous, and doesn't have many meanings. Not everything is in shades of grey.


"In the beginning of this country, you could argue that "Manifest Destiny" was certainly another fancy word for an Empire, as we took control of land, and claimed it for our own."

The Manifest Destiny thing was definitely an empirical attitude, yep.

"There still seems to be a form of Manifest Destiny that lingers in that America feels it must get involved in everything and that "The American Way" must find its way into every country."

Manifest Destiny was some American's belief that all of North America should be un American rule. I would say it's too much of a stretch to say that that applies to Americans believing that their way is the best way. It doesn't mean they think other countries should be ruled by them.

"How about instead of saying "right" or "wrong", we say, "I'm justified in my belief because..."? It feels a lot less angry and might calm tension a bit. Just a thought."

I don't think that sort of tact is necessary here. I honestly don't see anything worth being angered or tense about.

Usually I would agree that most things aren't just right or wrong, but not here. The word "empire" is very specifically defined, and the US doesn't fit it. It's as simple as that.

[Big D]

The problem with the term 'empire' is its connotations, I think. People consider either the Roman-style notion of an all-encompassing military power, or the British-style colonies. When people refer to "US imperialism", they're usually referring to the forced imposition of ideas and ideals, the *sometimes extreme* external force and control exerted over other nations by the US in the past. This is often disguised or presented in a different light. Take 'Colonel' Gadaffi, the Libyan leader. Until just recently, he was the terrorist leader of an evil rogue nation, probably high on the list of "people whose family homes should be bombed in the name of freedom"; however, now that he's co-operating with the US's wishes by opening his country's WMD facilities to inspection, he's the new bestest buddy of the UK-US leaders. A decisions made "of his own free will", but obviously the only choice he could've made to ensure that his country can make socio-economic progress and avoid getting bombed into the last epoch.

I have to agree with The Captain, though. Opinion and perspective have a lot of sway in matters like these, but an absolutist statement like "I'm right and you're not" doesn't really help much. All we can really do is contribute our own viewpoints and interpretations, and more importantly, our reasons for believing what we do.

But, on a strictly literal construction, the United States aren't an empire.

[The Captain]

Hmm, it would certainly seem that I erred by not including a certain word when I first created this thread.
Does America seem "like" an empire?

That probably makes a heck of a lot of difference.


"I disagree, since this deals with the definition of a word. The word "empire" isn't ambiguous, and doesn't have many meanings. Not everything is in shades of grey."

I'd say everything has shades of grey. Depending on whose definition of empire you read, it can mean entirely different things. For instance, in most countries, I'd warrant Manifest Destiny did not mean the same as it did to the Americans. It all depends on perspective. One can claim Bush is an evil dictator, in the same way that one can say Osama Bin Laden is doing right by Islam. Granted, neither is correct, but don't you see the dangers of just being black and white too?

Take care all.

[HOOTERS]

I think that going to war with another country based on reasons that aren't clear is pretty Empire like. Then again it could just be that they have a stupid leader.

[Peegee]

On a random note, NAFTA has some sort of really dodgy concepts, where US companies can sue the countries for the amount that they deem will be made, in the event that they are not allowed to "set up camp" in other countries and engage in capitalistic production (read: if they aren't allowed to make factories or whatever wherever they want, they can sue for excessive amounts of money). Mexico was hit hard, but I'm more familiar with USA companies randomly suing Canada for several million dollars for not letting them set up a factory.

Empire? Definitely.

[The Captain]

Agreed. Then again, NAFTA has always had problems and troubles worldwide, which is odd since it's only supposed to be about North America.

Take care all.