Where'd tidus go? *spoiler*

[The Nique]

Highlight to view:[bigspoiler] So tidus dissapears at the end, becuase he is only a part of the dream of the faith... and the faith "stop" dreaming. Does this mean that tidus actually ceases to exsist in any way at all? Or that he merely cannot exsist in the phyisical realm, "outside" of the faith who are in(?) the farplane, so he becomes a spirit in the farplane? or was "tidus" a real person, who's memory (and thus, spirit) was placed in the physical realm by the faith to defeat sin once and for all, and then his spirit would return to the farplane, and out of the faith's dream as well? I think I know the answer but I haven't dug into X enough to really be sure...[/bigspoiler]

[zacks_clone]

if you get the chance,Play X-2. It may clear some things up.

Well, this is a spoiler marked thread. I am not going to mark the spoilers I write,so, your forwarned.

Alright, Tidus was the faiths dream. The faith, by the end,were killed by Tidus and company. Tidus, then, 'died'.He seemed to be an unset by the end of the game,for a moment, before he jumped from the airship and seemingly into the farplane(that would explain Auron,Jetch and Braska at the end). This makes you believe he is in the farplane, gone gone gone forever. This is what X leaves you, BEFORE the credits. If you happen to wait intill after the credits, something else is shown that you have not mentioned.

these things to me no good. My screans set so bright that I can actually read them without highlighting.-.-;;-->[spoilers]after the credits, Tidus is holding his knees in what appears to be water. Perhaps the ocean, because the water isnt as clear as it is in a blitz stadium[/spoilers]. Well, you can then assume that he is alive on the planet ( left un named I believe). Then again, you can assume he is in the farplanes, in the water there. I think there may have been a pyrefly thing around him.

But, like i mentioned, if you play X-2 this would all be cleared up.But, by the end of X, you can simply assume he is alive or dead.

[The Nique]

Well, I've almost beaten X-2, but nothing is cleared up at this point. I have a theory about shuyin being the "real" tidus, i.e. the one that actually lived in zanarkand 1000 years ago, and that "tidus" was just the faith's dream-world interpreatation of that person... but that could be totally off.

The faith were'nt ALL killed by Tidus and company though... were they? Isn't the faith just the collective conciousnes of the afterlife? Anyway, I did watch the very end part with Tidus you spoke of, and I took it to mean he was alive... "reborn" somehow... but meh, I got not clue.

[SeeDRankLou]

Originally posted by The Nique
Well, I've almost beaten X-2, but nothing is cleared up at this point. I have a theory about shuyin being the "real" tidus, i.e. the one that actually lived in zanarkand 1000 years ago, and that "tidus" was just the faith's dream-world interpreatation of that person... but that could be totally off.

The faith were'nt ALL killed by Tidus and company though... were they? Isn't the faith just the collective conciousnes of the afterlife? Anyway, I did watch the very end part with Tidus you spoke of, and I took it to mean he was alive... "reborn" somehow... but meh, I got not clue.

Again....spoilers for both FFXs.

Shuyin isn't the real Tidus. The whole Yuna/Lenne Tidus/Shuyin thing is merely dramatic coincidence. It's similar to the coincidence between Laguana/Squall and Julia/Rinoa in FFVIII. They are two different sets of people who happen to be going through the same thing, and in FFX-2's case happen to look a lot alike. Shuyin was real 1000 years ago, but Tidus isn't the recreation of him, at least there's nothing that mentions that. He just merely looks like Shuyin, as Yuna just looks a lot like Lenne. It's nothing more than dramatic coincidence.

The fayth were not killed, the aeons were killed. The fayth merely stopped dreaming. A fayth is a person who gives his/her soul to Yevon so that a summoner can use the fayth to call create an aeon. Don't confuse the fayth with the lifestream from FFVII. And, the whole Tidus is "reborn" thing is summed up in the very end of the game if you get the good ending, especially if you get the perfect ending. So wait until then and your question will probably be answered.

[Big D]

When Yu Yevon was finally defeated, his greatest summoning ceased to be - the Dream Zanarkand. Yevon's power gave strength to the Fayth, enabling the Aeons and the Dream World to exist.

Tidus emerged from the dream, just like the Aeons do when a summoner calls on them; he became as real as anyone else, though before he had been just a product of the endless dreaming of the Fayth, rendered into life by Yu Yevon's eternal summoning. At the end, the power of Yevon and the Fayth has gone; the dream is ceasing to exist. As Tidus leaps from the airship, he does indeed come to the Farplane - Auron and Braska are waiting for him, and Jecht too, which adds proof that these 'dreams' are real enough that their souls live on. Now, Tidus didn't reach the Farplane because of the Sending, but then the game hints that the sending isn't always necessary for a soul to reach the Farplane. After the credits, Tidus awakens in a vast sea, just like the Fayth promised he would. Shiva, I believe, says that this is their parting gift to him.

Shuyin isn't the real Tidus. The whole Yuna/Lenne Tidus/Shuyin thing is merely dramatic coincidence. It's similar to the coincidence between Laguana/Squall and Julia/Rinoa in FFVIII. They are two different sets of people who happen to be going through the same thing, and in FFX-2's case happen to look a lot alike. Shuyin was real 1000 years ago, but Tidus isn't the recreation of him, at least there's nothing that mentions that. He just merely looks like Shuyin, as Yuna just looks a lot like Lenne. It's nothing more than dramatic coincidence.

Here's something to consider... Lenne was a summoner, so are all the other Fayth; it's conceivable that the other summoners knew Lenne - and Shuyin. Tidus is a product of their dream, so maybe he has some of Shuyin's characteristics too? Kind of like he's the embodiment of fragments of the summoners' memories, a little bit of the Fayths' former lives coming into the dream. It makes sense... and anyway, Yuna doesn't really look much like Lenne at all, just when she's in the Songstress form. Shuyin and Tidus have far more in common.

The fayth were not killed, the aeons were killed. The fayth merely stopped dreaming. A fayth is a person who gives his/her soul to Yevon so that a summoner can use the fayth to call create an aeon.

The Fayth were originally Summoners of Zanarkand; following Zanarkand's defeat by Bevelle, the summoners agreed to have their souls trapped in statues so they could preserve the memory, the dream of what used to be. The Fayth are those imprisoned souls. Technically, they are dead; Auron says as much in the game. The Aeons are manifestations of the Fayth, the power they used to have, come to life again to aid in the fight against Sin. "We Aeons", as the Fayth of Bahamut said.

[SeeDRankLou]

Originally posted by Big D
Now, Tidus didn't reach the Farplane because of the Sending, but then the game hints that the sending isn't always necessary for a soul to reach the Farplane. After the credits, Tidus awakens in a vast sea, just like the Fayth promised he would.

Have you seen the good ending of FFX-2?

The Fayth were originally Summoners of Zanarkand; following Zanarkand's defeat by Bevelle, the summoners agreed to have their souls trapped in statues so they could preserve the memory, the dream of what used to be. The Fayth are those imprisoned souls. Technically, they are dead; Auron says as much in the game. The Aeons are manifestations of the Fayth, the power they used to have, come to life again to aid in the fight against Sin. "We Aeons", as the Fayth of Bahamut said.

I'm not arguing with you about this, I just honestly don't remember these things being said. Do you remember what part of the game this information is given? And if it is ever mentioned that Seymour's mother is a summoner?

[Big D]

I believe Maechen explained about the summoners volunteering to become Fayth after the war. That is, the Fayth in the temples around Spira; the Fayth Cluster on Mount Gagazet were probably all regular folk.

Seymour's mother is an apparent anomaly to this.

Have you seen the good ending of FFX-2?

Not yet. I've seen that 'sad ending', I think - the one where (SPOILER)Yuna says goodbye to Tidus in the Farplane Glen, but I'm still working on that '100% completion'.

[SeeDRankLou]

Originally posted by Big D
I believe Maechen explained about the summoners volunteering to become Fayth after the war. That is, the Fayth in the temples around Spira; the Fayth Cluster on Mount Gagazet were probably all regular folk.

Seymour's mother is an apparent anomaly to this.

Not yet. I've seen that 'sad ending', I think - the one where (SPOILER)Yuna says goodbye to Tidus in the Farplane Glen, but I'm still working on that '100% completion'.

Fayth in the temples are summoners. I thought you meant all the fayth, including the fayth cluster. Ok. You think the kid who's Bahamut's fayth is a little young to be a summoner? Maybe he's a prodigy.

You don't need 100% for the good ending, you just need to complete a certain amount of criteria. You might think differently of what you said early about Tidus in the sea once you see the good ending.

[Big D]

Originally posted by SeedRankLou
Fayth in the temples are summoners. I thought you meant all the fayth, including the fayth cluster. Ok. You think the kid who's Bahamut's fayth is a little young to be a summoner? Maybe he's a prodigy.

I always assumed he was once a summoner, just like the other Fayth. They're the ones who actually summoned the Aeons in the past, so it's logical that they're the ones who grant that power to the summoners of Yuna's era.

You might think differently of what you said early about Tidus in the sea once you see the good ending.

Good point. However, in a purely FFX context, I assumed that 'sea' was a dream of sorts, a kind of 'afterlife' that the Fayth made for Tidus when he faded and went to the Farplane. That fits in with the X-2 ending I've already seen; but I'll hold off on being certain till I've seen the full ending. As well as the 'good' ending, isn't there also one that you can only get by achieving 100% - the 'perfect' ending? The guidebook states that this one includes an additional scene after the 'good' ending, following the credits.

[Skogs]

Right. Ahem.

First, FFX spoilers:

(SPOILER)I don't think that Fayth have to be summoners. Reasons being: Bahamut's fayth seems rather young, Seymour's mother isn't a summoner as far as we know and guardians become Fayth for the Final Summoning.

Regarding the end of FFX, the party have to kill off the aeons so that Yu Yevon cannot use them to create a new Sin, as he would with any Final Aeon. One Sin is defeated, the Fayth can stop dreaming as the spiral of destruction has ended and Spira has new hope. Thus, their dream ends - taking the Aeons, the dream Zanarkand and Tidus with them.

Now... BIG FAT SMELLY FFX-2 ENDING SPOILERS

(SPOILER)The Fayth reawaken during FFX-2 because Spira faces a new threat from Vegnagun and Shuyin, but are unable to avoid falling under its influence. This is why we re-encounter the Aeons in FFX-2.

Fast-forward to the ending, and Yuna and Co manage to save the day and free the Fayth from Veggie's control. I guess as thanks, they return Tidus to Spira (if that's the ending you choose, of course...). I guess to do so they must continue dreaming.

[Big D]

[q=Skogs]I don't think that Fayth have to be summoners. Reasons being: Bahamut's fayth seems rather young, Seymour's mother isn't a summoner as far as we know and guardians become Fayth for the Final Summoning.
[/q]Sure, but all the 'mainstream' Fayth are, or rather were, summoners - except for the Fayth Cluster on Mt Gagazet. Basically, all the Fayth that summon conventional Aeons were once summoners, the Fayth say as much in the game. Bahamut was simply gifted, like Lenne, Yojimbo and the rest. Age, in FFs, is little barrier to power or greatness.

Regarding the end of FFX, the party have to kill off the aeons so that Yu Yevon cannot use them to create a new Sin, as he would with any Final Aeon. One Sin is defeated, the Fayth can stop dreaming as the spiral of destruction has ended and Spira has new hope. Thus, their dream ends - taking the Aeons, the dream Zanarkand and Tidus with them.

Yep. Every time Yevon possessed an Aeon, he became vulnerable to attack, once all the Aeons were defeated, Yevon had to confront the party directly - and lost. Yevon, though, was also the driving force behind the Fayth's dream; when Yevon perished, so did the power of the Fayth. They didn't have too much of a choice, they were always bound to the power of Yu Yevon, the unsurpassed summoner. The Fayth of Bahamut explains about this, when you re-visit Bevelle temple.

[The Nique]

yeah. What was the whole point? I mean, Yevon was the religion, right? But Yu Yevon was never considered 'God', right? But Yu was the central figure... And if yu yevon was 'evil' why were the fayth tied to him/her/it?

It's been a while, and once it got to the end, I was really confused as to the who concept of spira's religion.

[Big D]

After Zanarkand was destroyed by Bevelle's onslaught, Yu Yevon enabled the few survivors to become Fayth, so that the Aeons could be preserved, along with the dream of Zanarkand as it used to be. Yevon also summoned and created Sin, in order to wreak terror and vengeance. The Teachings of Yevon - Yu Yevon's orders, basically - became widespread when people realised that obeying the rules would allegedly help to keep Sin's wrath at bay. Refusing to use machina, denying progress - the Teachings brought things to a standstill, but also prevented the rebuilding of the terrible weapons that had destroyed Zanarkand. No-one actually knew that Yu Yevon was at the heart of Sin; in time, people knew the name 'Yevon' simply as the name of the person responsible for the teachings, and the summoners whose sacrifices kept Sin temporarily at bay. Yu Yevon himself ceased to be a conscious, normal being; "he is neither good nor evil. He is awake, yet he dreams." Yu Yevon was in a state somewhere between consciousness and unconsciousness, living only to continue summoning - summoning the Dream World, via the Fayth, and summoning Sin itself. I doubt he was really aware of what was real and what wasn't. Every few years, a summoner would defeat Sin, and the Final Aeon would provide a new soul for Yevon to enjoy; hence Yunalesca's undying perseverance as the "reaper of souls" for her father.

It's definitely confusing at first, but it does make a certain amount of sense.

[The Nique]

The moral? I mean, Yu's intentions weren't 'bad' persay... fuled by anger, perhaps... misguided even. Seems that the teachings were corrupted though, and of course, the truth hidden...

But in anycase, the fayth sent in a 'memory' or dream that was crucial to stopping the summoning of the dream, which apparently was cuasing the fayth to be .. tired? Not at rest, whatever. Why was Tidus brought out of the dream?

[Big D]

Tidus was brought out of the dream, mainly as a result of coming into contact with Sin. Sin can apparently cross between the real world and the dream world; Jecht and Tidus became real in exactly the same way that Aeons become real when they're summoned. A 'dream', or vision, interacts with Pyreflies and becomes a corporeal, living force as a result of magical processes.
The Fayth certainly were tired; dead for a thousand years, but with their souls trapped in statues rather than being allowed to dissipate a go to the Farplane. Forever slaving away, running the Dream World, and also being used to by summoners to call Aeons. They wanted it all to end, for good. No more Yu Yevon = no more Fayth, basically.

The moral? I mean, Yu's intentions weren't 'bad' persay... fuled by anger, perhaps... misguided even. Seems that the teachings were corrupted though, and of course, the truth hidden...

Oh, he had bad intentions alright. He wanted to bring havoc and terror to Spira, to punish the world for its destructive ways; the teachings were there to show how things 'should' be done. The teachings were corrupted, a little - people believed that Sin would one day be gone, once everyone had atoned for their sins; also, they believed that Yevon had given them the teachings to lead them on the path to redemption, and away from Sin.