yea, it's horrific regardless, but they are technically working for the US military and we are at war with these people in Iraq.
yea, it's horrific regardless, but they are technically working for the US military and we are at war with these people in Iraq.
Well he didn't get peace, and he didn't get weapons of mass destruction, so I sure hope Bush got some of that oil he wanted.
It doesn't seem as if any of the military forces in Iraq are actually achieving anything by being over there and if that is the case I hope they are pulled out before it results in more horrible stuff like this.
"It doesn't seem as if any of the military forces in Iraq are actually achieving anything by being over there and if that is the case I hope they are pulled out before it results in more horrible stuff like this."
That is true enough, but now we're in a catch-22. If we just up and leave, then all the innocent people there will be stranded. However, we cannot just sit there and hope people come to their senses either. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Quite a nice pickle Mr. President.
Take care all.
You'd think we'd have learned about these situations from our past, but I guess not.
Jimmy Carter was probably our best president in terms of morality because he actually addressed problems with frank honesty. Of course, he was burned for it, and blamed for all that went wrong, but if one looks at what he tried to accomplish, I think your admiration for what he did and stood for will rise.
Take care all.
Clearly, the entire population's not to blame for the actions of extremists. It's pretty close to racism to say that the whole country's full of bloodthirsty murderers just because people like that are active there.
What west should do is to hunt down the guilty, but contine doing everything possible to help the innocent. A horrific crime like that can't go unpunished, but it won't help anyone to treat every Iraqi like a terrorist. --Faris_the_guy?
Like I said, I don't know how it really is over there. All I know is what I see on TV, and what I see on TV is all bad. I see that there are at the very least huge mobs if not entire towns of people who are actively fighting us. I see prominent Iraqis saying things like this: that 9/11 was "a miracle from God". I see people holding riots in the streets demanding that Americans leave, even though we're all that's keeping them from being plunged into anarchy. I see an entire nation of Iraqis who allowed themselves to be abused by a dictator rather than fighting against him, who allowed their leader to pillage other nations and murder his own citizens and did nothing to stop him.
If the majority of Iraqis are shocked and appalled when innocent Americans are killed and mutilated in the streets by Iraqis, then sure, that's a great thing. But if Iraqis don't give a crap about incidents such as this thread discusses, then what? What exactly is the difference between doing evil acts and tolerating evil acts? I really hope that most Iraqis have some brains and some morals. I will agree that it's certain that some do, if not most. But it is hard to believe sometimes, even if it's true. Maybe just because we only see the bad stuff on TV and not the good. I don't know.
It's the media that ultimately dictates the news, not the news itself.
Take care all.
"And in an exciting new development, seven million Iraqis got out of bed, ate their breakfast and went off to work this morning!"
Gee-whiz, that'll boost the ratings. News broadcasters don't give a damn about anything but getting money off advertisers.So if your leader started making people disappear, you'd grab a shovel and make a charge for retribution? The thing about oppressive totalitarian dictators is that they kill any who oppose them. Unless they all wanted to die, there was nothing they could've done.. actually, tens of thousands of Kurds tried to fight back, but they were all murdered with WMDs. Dictators like that control the news, they can make people believe whatever they want about anyone.I see an entire nation of Iraqis who allowed themselves to be abused by a dictator rather than fighting against him, who allowed their leader to pillage other nations and murder his own citizens and did nothing to stop him.
blaaaaaaaaaaaargh.
"Coolest newbie, ever. *hands repo man a Ciddie*"~Agent Proto
""And in an exciting new development, seven million Iraqis got out of bed, ate their breakfast and went off to work this morning!"
Gee-whiz, that'll boost the ratings. News broadcasters don't give a damn about anything but getting money off advertisers." - Repo Man
Indeed, but at least it would be the truth for once. I've begun to forget what that is.
Take care all.
Heh, if I went just by what I saw on t.v. I'd think Americans had no brains or morals either.Originally posted by Dr Unne
If the majority of Iraqis are shocked and appalled when innocent Americans are killed and mutilated in the streets by Iraqis, then sure, that's a great thing. But if Iraqis don't give a crap about incidents such as this thread discusses, then what? What exactly is the difference between doing evil acts and tolerating evil acts? I really hope that most Iraqis have some brains and some morals. I will agree that it's certain that some do, if not most. But it is hard to believe sometimes, even if it's true. Maybe just because we only see the bad stuff on TV and not the good. I don't know.
Well, we certainly ARE getting fatter.
Take care all.
So if your leader started making people disappear, you'd grab a shovel and make a charge for retribution? --repo man?
Retribution? No. Self-defense. It's how this nation was founded, for example. If my mother was dragged into the street and raped and murdered before my eyes by the personal guard of the President, yes, I would likely go down in flames and take as many of them with me as I could manage. Maybe not in a mindless rush that accomplishes nothing, but in the form of organized rebellion; who knows. I wouldn't sit around and wait to be saved, pretty sure. And if I did sit around and wait to be saved, would I really deserve to be saved? I don't know.
Unless they all wanted to die, there was nothing they could've done.. actually, tens of thousands of Kurds tried to fight back, but they were all murdered with WMDs.
Still a few million Iraqis left though, weren't there? If they'd tried too, they could've won. I'm sure the general population outnumbered the Iraqi army. Dictators rule because the people allow it. Maybe they couldn't have won, but is life worth living in a world where you have to watch your loved ones tortured to death before your eyes?
Dictators like that control the news, they can make people believe whatever they want about anyone.
You can't make someone believe something. You can say something all you want; it takes another person to choose to believe it.
Heh, if I went just by what I saw on t.v. I'd think Americans had no brains or morals either. --HOOTERS
So would I.
In extreme situations, people will be more than willing to trade in their freedom for the ability to keep themselves and their children safe. It could happen anywhere, given the right situation - Iraq, Russia, France, America - anywhere. It's a sad fact of human nature that most of us would prefer safety over freedom. That has been the case in Iraq for too long now, and it will be a difficult process bringing the people out of the darkness of opression.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
So, imagine you're in a world where EVERYTHING you see, hear and know has been carefully scripted to make you believe lies. You're told that the world wants to conquer you, that evil outside forces are bent on pillaging your country's resources, and they'll kill anyone who gets in their way but use lies to try to justify their actions. Then, your country gets invaded by a foreign force, thousands of innocents die, and foreign troops control the streets. What would you believe?You can't make someone believe something. You can say something all you want; it takes another person to choose to believe it.
"Ah, I see! Everything the state told me was a lie, these people are actually my friends. Yay for liberation!"
Of course not. If information's not available, people can't know it. People "choose" to believe this because there's nothing else available. 'Truman Show' principles, you might say. You can't blame an entire country for having ignorance forced upon them.Yeah, every normal population has the courage and resolve to charge to certain death, when the alternative - simply obeying - will keep them alive and in a stable, if unpleasant, state of existence. Virtually every country has had disagreeable leaders at some time or another, you can't reasonably blame a nation for choosing death in the vague hope of possibly destroying their rulers in the process. Rebellions are found out and the instigators brutally murdered; soldiers beat anyone who fails to have the dictator's protrait in their homes. That's how Iraq was. Or should they have killed Hussein just when he rose to power, because they suspected he might turn evil?Still a few million Iraqis left though, weren't there? If they'd tried too, they could've won. I'm sure the general population outnumbered the Iraqi army. Dictators rule because the people allow it. Maybe they couldn't have won, but is life worth living in a world where you have to watch your loved ones tortured to death before your eyes?
It's a known, errr... practice, among Arabs, to desecrate the bodies of fallen enemies. When they execute people (at least here with the Palestinians), they cut the body in various parts, and hang it for all to see, and for various prey-birds to take random bites. Syrian soldiers, I hear, used to carry small hand-axes to mutilate the bodies of defeated troops (if I recall correctly, last sightings of this phenomenon were in the Yom Kippur war in 1973). So, it's not something new, really.
And - these things will keep on happening. The Iraqies won't tolerate anyone foreign controlling them, even if ultimately, it's the best thing for them. So... I just hope America pulls out of that hell-hole as soon as possible, and the hell with helping the Iraqi people, if this is their display of appreciation.
When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one yourself... when gazing into the abyss, bear in mind that the abyss also gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The rightful owner of this Ciddie can kiss my arse! :P
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