Quote Originally Posted by Monol
between Aeris's death and vivi's there is quite a diffrence
In terms of storytelling, I don't see much of a difference. Through a sword passing through her back and out her stomach, and then her lifeless body descending into a lake, the writers of VII showed us that Aerith is dead. Through us being flat-out told that the lifespan of the Black Mages was less than that of the rest of Gaia's dominant races, we know that they were all going to live short lives. Kuja said that the prototype (Vivi) would live longer, but he had already outlived the life expectancy of the rest of them by almost 9 years. Add to this the fact that Vivi's own words are a farewell to everyone followed by a line that beyond question shows that he was expecting his death, and we have a scenario that is hinting at it very strongly.

Follow that up with a scene in which he is absent whereas everyone else isn't, and we have confirmation of his death as much as is valued in storytelling as we did with seeing Aerith skewered and die in front of us.


Quote Originally Posted by Monol
Now with that i believe that it cant be stated full heartly regardless of this notion....vivi contemplated his death...sorrow..throughout the entire game...as stated through out this entire thread...we all know this... :rolleyes2 now from this we can assume one of two things at the end of the game...that one through his journy with his friends and zidane vivi was able to conquer death even though it was his destiny from the begining...his ability to be diffrent from the other black mages allowed him to gain the strength to live
Before I address the rest of this, I want to refer to your question:

Quote Originally Posted by Monol
now as you stated quite wisely that we may not have seen his so called "demise" or "stopping" but we can use evidential proof from the game itself correct?
Yes, evidence from the game would be what one would have to use. But in this case, there's not any evidence for the notion that Vivi could have found some strength to overcome his death. We're told that the Black Mages would have a shorter lifespan and this is never contradicted by anyone. Further, Vivi himself writes a letter of farewell to everyone before the reunion in which he openly accepts his death. The game doesn't show or imply that Vivi found some means or strength to overcome the physical act of dying, but, rather, found the strength to face his fears, enjoy the life that had been given to him, and accept it:

(Vivi's own words.)
"I always talked about you, Zidane. How you were a very special person to us, because you taught us all how important life is."
"You taught me that life doesn't last forever. That's why we have to help each other and live life to the fullest."
"Even if you say goodbye, you'll always be in our hearts. So, I know we're not alone anymore."
"Why I was born... How I wanted to live... Thanks for giving me time to think."
"To keep doing what you set your heart on... It's a very hard thing to do. We were all so courageous..."
"What to do when I felt lonely... That was the only thing you couldn't teach me. But we need to figure out the answer for ourselves..."
"I'm so happy I met everyone... I wish we could've gone on more adventures.
But I guess we all have to say goodbye someday."
"Everyone... Thank you. Farewell."
"My memories will be part of the sky..."

I'm a big fan of Vivi, as well. I adore the character. Yet, even so, I find that one would have to twist or ignore what is there and apply wishful thinking in regard to things that aren't to conclude that Vivi may have still been alive by the time of Zidane's return. He very plainly wasn't even there. Again, I'm a big fan of Vivi, yet there's no counter evidence for the evidence of his death. It's just the way the story was written and there's no way around that.


Thank you for your politeness in regard to the discussion, by the way. It's good to see.