Appeasement

[Snowman]

just this minite on channel four news there was a report about something an american news network uncoverd, a former rpison camp of saddams, now taken over by the american military has been discoverd to be torturing iraque prisoners. photo's were taken of prisoners stripped naked and beaten with american soildgers stood beside them grinning and holding their thumbs up. one picture shows an iraque standing on a cardboard box, forced to where a bag over his head and wires tied to his thumbs. he was told if he fell off the box he would be electricuted. when this went publick in the US the military admitted it was all true. good for them they didnt try to hide it and made no excuses other than what teh hell went down there was wrong.
certainly media blows many things out of proportion...but they also uncover facts that certai people didnt want us to see.

i never said you know nothing about duty or honer or chivalry Doc...your a very uptight paranoid person, but your certainly gullable if you place your life and the lifes of others in teh hands of people who dont give a crap. my duty, honer and every chivalrus aspect of my being is to those i love and family as well as myself. you dont know me and you havent fought beside me or else you would understand my sense and being of houner. it's a laugh hearing you say that here when i hear exactly the opposite from teh mature studants i teach and those ive lived with. but each to their own. Im happy to know my actions in life have shown me what im made of.

Tal, if i was fibbing i would say that the american military from teh very start of this operation in iraque proved how uterly useless they are by the fact that the first casualties were british and teh americans caused it by crashing choppers and a noteable rogue pilot who blew the out of one of our tanks, killing the crew except for teh gunner. The DETAILS of what i just said were in fact true, however i DIDNT mention the large humanitarian effort of both the US soildgers and britsh in aiding teh everyday iraque's. how about teh fact that at one point the military dropped a new type of cluster bomb which they mistakenly coloured the eexact same colour as aid parcels, which led to reports from teh font lines of children picking them up and being blown up...yet again not another fib but an actual accident.

im glad for your family Tal that they have a loyal son, but my brothers mean exactly trout to me compared to my lovedones, as for your uncle sam and my queen, a leader must lead by example to inspire my loyalty, simply because someone talks the talk wont make me walk the walk. Whats more i know from experiance that not everyone is abel to fight let alone stand up to war.....if you want to take people in who wont be able to look after your back your a bigger fool than i gave you credit for. what a nice person...happy to punish others for their weakness, what a bright star you are. glad im not american.

[Talus]

Whats more i know from experiance that not everyone is abel to fight let alone stand up to war.....

Then they shouldn't join the military.

what a nice person...happy to punish others for their weakness, what a bright star you are. glad im not american.

No, you got it backwards, that man is punishing us. By using drugs he's letting down everyone he works with. Trying to bail on his battle-buddies during a time of need, that's punishing his unit, they would have to carry the extra burden because he "can't cope". There is no room for that sort of "weakness" when it's life or death.

If you accept the behavior of cowardice and drug addiction, then I'm glad you're not American also.

[TasteyPies]

You know snow, its funny how you talk about all these resources that you get all this "information" from but you dont even give us a site link. You just talk about your countries magazines and new junk. We wouldnt even know it EXISTS man

[Snowman]

what about all the military services, especially teh navy, which dont require the combat skills as highly as technical abilities, medical, catering, intelligance etc. Im not saying they all have to be steven segal, ex navy seals turned cook's lol.

i accept and understand that not everyone is as strong of mind and body as i am. Smoking is as much a liability as a soildger who takes differing forms of drugs because, like alchohol, it weakens your body and mind without even taking into account all teh research into cancers etc. he's a liability HAVING him there, do you want someone whos in such a state he guns down a load of kids, s up his gun and shoots you, hell he could even drop a granade after he pulled the pin out, see what his comrades think then when they dont have ankles anymore. If someone is mentally unfit then you dont take them into combat. we dont know anything about him, there could be a psycheatric reason which the militarys oldschool manner wouldnt pick up on.
Im not just mouthing off, ive fought in groups and had to rely on people having my back or i would end up with a spear shaft through it...ive seen whats happend to people who just didnt pay attention. hell the mix of ages and adults i get to tutor in combat come with all sorts of asorted problems. Your right theres no room for a warrior with those kind of problems on teh feild of comabt, so perhaps the psyche guys should have payed more attention to those they sent out.

Pies, your welcome to check out CBS's offical website and see if they have the latest news, frankly the last news bullitin has been on every channel over here and it was discoverd by americans so if you havent seen it.....change the channel, try the BBC (youve herd of them right). But the photographs of naked israle prisoners piled on top of each other five high with a female officer leaning on their bare butts smiling while they have sacks over their heads speak for themselves. thankfully the military has since suspended them....one of them even came out with teh fact that thye were autherrised to do it, they do it all the time and so do most US military prison camps and teh FBI use the same tactic just down teh road. Im shocked because it means if the US military is doing this then the British military KNEW about it and did nothing.
I DONT search the web for news bullitins or note worthy sites, like teh majority of people i watch teh news at ten over here, i havent mentiond a single magazine yet. As far as i know you can get BBC in the US. hence why i come online and look at a final fantasy site. why i spend most of my short online time on ebay. if you want some neat links to some illustration sites ive got loads, legal and rude, if you want some british and american proffestional models i have them, but they have nothing to do with this topic. Everything ive said about swordfighting is my 22 years of being involved with it, winning compitions, fighting battles including the oldschool nutters who wanted to take your head off and now teaching...what links can i give you tere when it's all in my hands.
If you know anyone in the UK ask them to watch the news.

[Phil]

Democratically elected dictators count, too?

If your referring to bush, he isnt a dictator. Plus the fact that he doesnt torture people like the middle eastern dictators do. They treat citizens horribly in order to get their opinions across.

Anybody who takes everything they read/watch/hear in the media as absolute fact is going to end up seriously misinformed- hooters

Which explains snowmans story. HOw do you know it was the us that beat them up? I dotn think the military is capable of doing that under the jeneava (sp?) convention.

[The Captain]

If you look at the thread below this one entitled, "God Bless America's Finest", you'll see that the USA is more than capable of the cruelty that we often look down upon.

The Geneva Convention isn't like the UN, we can't decide to ignore it if it doesn't suit us.

Take care all.

[War Angel]

The Geneva Convention isn't like the UN, we can't decide to ignore it if it doesn't suit us.

Or else... what? People will think America sucks? That's nothing new. People would attack America? Nothing new there either.

Fact is, you can ignore anything you want when it comes to international affairs - as long as you can withstand the price, the consquences, and the outcome.

[Phil]

If they truly are beating Iraqis I hope they DO get in trouble, however I doubt its true. I love everybody, even the Iraqis. Peace should come, be it by any means nececcary. I sincerely doubt the beatings are real.

[The Captain]

"Or else... what? People will think America sucks? That's nothing new. People would attack America? Nothing new there either.

Fact is, you can ignore anything you want when it comes to international affairs - as long as you can withstand the price, the consquences, and the outcome."

For one thing, if America ignores the Geneva Convention, then I bet every country with American POW's will ignore it as well, and that will only make matters worse.

As for the second part.. that concept scares me frankly, as that sort of mentality usually leads to someone along the lines of Hitler coming to power, rallying support to overturn international agreements because they can. Not saying you are anything like Hitler, I know for a fact you are not, but that concept sounds eerily like something a dictator would preach.

Take care all.

[War Angel]

then I bet every country with American POW's will ignore it as well, and that will only make matters worse.

Errr... they already do. Big time.

Not saying you are anything like Hitler, I know for a fact you are not

Yeah, I didn't die 60 years ago, so I'm probably not him.

Anyway - in the international arena, when you haven't got that many players, and certain players are substantially stronger than the others - the will use their power to their advantage. America can impose solutions on other countries, mediate, or make its own decisions on things. That's only because it's the world's power, and no-one can challenge them (yet) on that title. The UN can talk it all it wants, but that's all it can do - talk. Possibly, the only way to hurt a super-power without starting a war (which you would lose), is through financial means (boycotts, etc). I don't see however anyone stopping trade with the USA - do you? I guess it's not that important to them.

Frankly, I think you should be glad America is running things, and not, say, Nazi Germay or Soviet Russia. It could've happened that way, you know.

[Snowman]

VINCENT06...it's all over the news, the US military has copped to it. in fact they sacked a number of officers for it, Bush himself said it was abhorant (first real reaction ive seen him have) and that it isnt teh way america does things. unfortunatly for him it is because they were told to do it by senior officers. Photographs were taken OF US military officers pointing and laugh at their naked penis and bums. im sure i saw another thread around here about it. Now iraque has seen it and it's fueling terrorism...gee man i dont know how you could have missed it.....try any NEWS websites, it's all over here and the US broke the story.
I think it's frankly nieve to NOT think that this kind of crap goes on during war. it's wrong, but this happend in veitnam....and now it will happen again, it is happening again.

actually angel, while germany certainly has a growing ressurection of Neo-nazi, it isnt controlled by them, france is - the national front. And soviet russia isnt like during teh american paranoia of the kennedy days, they couldnt even afford to shoot a gun let alone run the world, they are dropping into economic crisis, that said i would take them anyday over the USA. pretty much america is turning into the new ROME/NAZI land of today with it's policy of america is always right and we are the best. Every country is alloud to pollute by a certain percentage, all the EU countries and japan come under that percentage, so america actually BUYS all those extras percents and that allows them to be the BIGGEST polluter on this planet. But of course bush said in his inner bred manner, "hell lets get out of these green talks" and turned his back on teh fact because he wanted to go and blow up some piss poor country. interesting how the US in history to today always starts wars with countries who are technologically and economically infeiror to them.

[Phil]

how tragic *no sarcasm*

[The Captain]

"Frankly, I think you should be glad America is running things, and not, say, Nazi Germay or Soviet Russia. It could've happened that way, you know."

Indeed. All I am saying is that, if we decide that we can make our own policies and reject others just because we can, we're going down that path of Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.

Take care all.