Eating animals is natural, normal, and moral.
Killing animals for reasons that have to do with fashion etc, is wrong. Killing seals is fine, if you're going to eat them too, or at least use their bodies completly. But just taking their fur\skin is... bleh. Not good. Wasteful.
When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one yourself... when gazing into the abyss, bear in mind that the abyss also gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The rightful owner of this Ciddie can kiss my arse! :P
Does one whack kill it though? (I'm being serious; I really don't know.Originally Posted by DocFrance
)
Something tells me that in 2004 there has got to be at least one better way to end an animal's life than smashing in its skull.
Well, when it comes to rabbits... First you gotta dangle it upside down with your free hand. Naturally, it's going to struggle. So you've gotta calm it down my stroking its back with the stick from the tail to the ears. After it's calm and relaxed and not struggling anymore, you smack it nice and hard right at the base of the back of the skull. If you hit it hard enough, it won't feel a thing. However, if you don't know what you're doing and you don't hit it hard enough, it won't kill it. The rabbit will freak out, start screaming (rabbits do scream, and it's a horrible sound), and struggle a lot, making it very painful and very hard to put it out of its misery.Does one whack kill it though? (I'm being serious; I really don't know.
But I digress...
Mind you, this was for survival training. If I'm ever stranded in not-so-friendly territory with little or no means of survival, I'm not going to think twice about whether my survival is more important than some tasty, juicy critter's "feelings."
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(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
Well, naturally, but I am curious....how exactly do you hunt a rabbit with your bare hands? Just curious, because if you are talking about bumping it in the head, I presume you would not have a bow or a rifle.Mind you, this was for survival training. If I'm ever stranded in not-so-friendly territory with little or no means of survival, I'm not going to think twice about whether my survival is more important than some tasty, juicy critter's "feelings."
Also, rabbits taste preety well >_>
Problems are in the countries where the origin is not marked. Here we have a law for that, though.If I know that it's done unethically, I won't touch it and make sure that any eggs that I buy are from free range chickens who are properly fed.
wow this took off in my absance lol...i carnt remeber everyones posts so ill comment on the things that pricked my interest.
i wasnt intending this thread to debate/discuss vegetariansm/veganism or anything along those lines since this topic genreally is embraced by people of many stands in life, thus i will avoid a full blown right and wrong war in this instance.....however in another thread lol.
humans are not worth more than animals, we are all equal. theres nothing that gives us rights over others. this was the argument not so long ago when people enjoyed slaves. IF ANYTHING we have a repsonsibility to the care of all life because we have abilitys far beyound others.
YES, i would kill millions of murderes to stop the milions of millions of lifes that they would take, bush took teh same standpoint over saddam, churchill took the same standpoint over the nazis and Boudica took teh same standpoint over the romans. When one man kills and kills and kills, it's common sense to stop him and thus you save many lifes. Surely you, or anyone would want the police to do what it takes to protect you and your loved ones.
eating meat is not nessacery to living, in fact ALL the benificial elements in meat and fish are found in larger amounts in most everyday cereals etc Ive been vegetarians since i was five, when i made teh association with cows and burgers. im now vegan....im helthyer than ANYONE else i know, i wigh around 13 to 14 stone and not only do i compeate in broadsword fighting but i teach it so living the vege lifestyle IS better for you. (it helps i dont smoke or take drugs lol).
whats more research by archeologists and universitys point to meat being less than 10 percent of medieval man and befores' diet. if you want links find them yourselves lol, theres hundreds of books from ebay and permaculture which educate along these lines. In truth the only reason people eat meat is because they want to. the only reason they kill helpless baby seals is because they want to.....is anyone saying in this day and age if canada started freesing to death america would sit and watch.
there will probably be loads of posts after this lol but i wont be online again untill tomoror
The world can end in a blood smeared second, but as warriors we live within those seconds.
Animals are not equal to humans, nowhere near equal, no doubt about it. You would kill millions of people for killing animals? Nah, society would stop an insane animal-rights murderer in no time. Come on back to reality.
Late one night I was out a-walkin'
Underneath the Northern Lights
Saw a baby seal a-sleepin'
Nixed his animal rights
Roast 'em, Toast 'em, Roto-till 'em
Kick 'em in the head and make 'em squeal
That's how I make my livin'
Clubbin' the baby seals
Haha, classic.
then what makes you think your on the same level/equal as me..or others...what entitles you to being safe and secure....your charm, your looks or popularity, perhaps how hard you work...nothing in fact. there isnt ANYTHING on this world that says Talus is more important than other life.
society has done nothing about the atrocities happening dayly to men and women in zimbabwe where Mugabe enlists women in his army for the purpose of rape and he trains young children to practise the arts of torture and interrogation. it's even harder to find let alone stop a person/persons intent on murder if they suddenly come out of nowhere and just do it.
The world can end in a blood smeared second, but as warriors we live within those seconds.
Recognized Member
That's kind of sick, Talus. I wouldn't put a human life above an animal (well, I guess that depends on which human we're talking about), but humans should be above that sort of cruelty.
Hello Pika Art by Dr Unne ~~~ godhatesfraggles
If I see a human baby and a puppy drowning, and I could only save one, I'd save the baby without even thinking twice. Not because I hate dogs and not because I want them to die - but because I value humans more than any other animal.
Vegeterianism on the basis of morality is, in my humble opinion, complete and utter bull. Lios eat zebras, snakes eat mice, cows eat grass... and we eat animals and plants too. Despite what some think, we are not gods on this earth, and we cannot disconnect ourselves from its ancient ways. Just because you're a rich Westerner with access to fancy foods and synthetic $hit that can somehow replace the natural ingredients found in meat, doesn't mean it's the right way. It doesn't mean that you can live without meat. Try living without your tofu crap for a while - see how well you do.
EDIT: Oh, Talus and DocFrance - without shooting the rabbit, how do you seize it? It's very fast and agile, far more than a human. And if you're using traps - why not use ones that kill it too?
When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one yourself... when gazing into the abyss, bear in mind that the abyss also gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The rightful owner of this Ciddie can kiss my arse! :P
i'm am constantly irrated by the twisted morality that precives empathy towards animals, i simply do not care and will carefree eat, wear or smoke whatever animal i want as long it doesn't bring it to the point of extinction.
Your sig is too hilarious and witty, thus i have removed it to protect the minds of all forum goers
-The allways inspiring leeza
Could you explain how it's twisted to desire a smaller amount of torture for animals to have to deal with?
I don't believe animals feel pain the same way as humans. Pain without a rational mind to understand the pain isn't the same as the pain of a human being. To an animal, getting a shot at the vet is the same as getting poked with a needle by some insane guy just because he thinks it's fun; they understand neither, they feel the same pain for both.
Animals will kill each other indiscriminately, according to instinct. I used to have a cat, who'd torture mice to death. Literally torture; he'd bat them around, let them almost get away and then pounce on them, and eventually when the mouse was battered to the point where it was crippled or near death, he'd kill it, and leave its corpse lying there. The cat didn't care. What's more, I think the mouse didn't care. Because animals can't "care", so far as I know, at least not in the same way as humans. The mouse tried to get away because pain=bad is hard-wired into its brain, and for no other reason. The cat killed the mouse because hunting=good is hardwired into its brain.
That said, I dislike seeing animals abused. People should know better than to put any creature through unnecessary pain. Seeing a person with no empathy for the pain of a baby seal somehow clicks in my mind into seeing that person as having no empathy for human pain either. People are supposed to be empathetic to the pain of other creatures, it seems to me.
All depends on the definition of "necessary" though. Like I said, killing a cow is necessary, in my opinion. Maybe to some people, seal coats are necessary. Beats me. So long as it's all semi-humane, I have nothing much against it.
humans are not worth more than animals, we are all equal. --Snowman
If you truly believe this, you're insane. Which do you value more, the life of a mouse or your own life? The life of a cow, or the life of your own mother or father? The life of a goldfish, or the life of your daughter or son?
If you decide to act upon your beliefs, I'm thankful that there are laws to stop you, and other people who don't value human life.
You're a hypocrite. Before you go yelling that I'm flaming you, hear me out. What gives you the right to judge other people based on your moral beliefs, and then act on that judgement by taking their lives as you see fit? Normally, I'd have nothing against vegetarians, as long as they keep their beliefs out of my business. I couldn't care less if they contradict thmeselves. However, the moment you begin to impose your beliefs on others, your morals become subject to scrutiny.
Here's a question: where do you draw the line? Insects are animals, too. Do you walk around avoiding every insignificant ant on the sidewalk, because they have rights as well? Did you know that you kill thousands of insects with your own hands just by washing your hair? And like I said before, animals are killed when farmers plow their crops. If you choose to arbitrarily draw the line anywhere, you are a hypocrite.
You say that animals have the same rights as humans. If that's so, why aren't animals allowed to vote? Maybe we should put every animal through public education. Animals should also be able to hold a position in government, pay taxes, get married, and basically do everything that humans are allowed to. If you truly believe that animals have the same rights as humans, then you will agree with the above statements. If not, you are a hypocrite.
I don't care if you're a vegetarian. I don't even care if you're a hypocrite about it. You could walk around with your nose in the air like your farts don't stink because you think you're better than the rest of these "murderers," and I couldn't give two craps. But when you say that you're willing to kill other human beings because of what you perceive to be wrong, then your farts better be the sweetest-smelling thing on Earth.
Meanwhile, I'm going to sit back and enjoy a nice, juicy T-bone steak. What, do you want to kill me for that?
Good question. If you're in a survival situation, you won't have many tools available to you. If you're lucky and you have a bit of metal wire, you can use it for a makeshift choke snare. You loop it around itself, making sure one of the ends points inwards, and tie it to a tree. Find a rodent hole and put the snare against the opening so that is imperceivable to the rodent. When it pops its head out or in, the end of the snare will snag on its fur, and quickly close the loop around it. Of course, this is if you're very lucky. This isn't meant for rabbits, since they're much to big for such a simple trap. It's mostly for smaller rodents like chipmunks and squirrels. It's highly doubtful that you'll have any tools available to make a trap that would kill the animal. Again, this is a survival situation, and I wouldn't think twice before putting my needs before those of an animal. Besides, in such a situation, its best to eat other things - local plants, though you have to be very familiar with what's poisonous and what's not; and insects. Ants are very high in protein and taste like lemon drops.
Last edited by DocFrance; 04-16-2004 at 09:09 PM.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
Damn it, Snowman, what you say makes no sense. Animals do not have the same rights, mainly because rights are not something natural, rights are something done by humans to allow them to exist in society. If humans didn't exist, do you think animals would organize to discuss their rights?
There is a declaration of human rights and a declaration of animal rights. As long as animal rights are respected, I'm fine. Yeah, I do go to animal rights demonstrations and trout. And yes, animal rights are not respected, so kinda...worry more about that than about making all the world become vegetarian through mass-murder of human beings. Oh, human rights are not respected either, another thing to worry about. Actually, I wonder if there is a country where such rights are respected.
The US, contrary to popular belief. Most countries in Europe, as well as a few others scattered here and there.
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(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
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