Seal Massaca

[Dr Unne]

personally in that respect my opinion is we ought to eat what we kill --Fallen_angel_666

Do they not eat seals that they kill for fur? Is seal even edible? If it's edible and if they just kill seals for fur and discard the rest, that's a terrible waste, yes.

I don't really know how humane you can get when you're killing animals on a large scale. A bullet isn't humane, no, because you can miss and wound the animal without killing it. I don't really know how animals are slaughtered in general, but I imagine never with bullets. I imagine many animals have their necks broken or something of that sort; a broken neck / severed spine is instant death, so far as I know, and probably as painless as you can get while still being efficient.

[Iceglow]

seal meat is indeed edible as I said it was a delicacy in norway also it is a historical dish of the viking ages

[Snowman]

Tal, alot of current research points towards eating meat causeing the activation of inherint cancers your born with. we all have tiny dormant amounts of cancers in us but for most of us nothing will ever happen....but for some they do get triggerd. links have been found between what you get from eating meat and what triggers cancers to awaken.....but they dont want to get this wrong and so the reasearch continues the same way the debate over smoking has gone on forever untill finally people carnt claim it's good for them.

shadow....you posed teh question.....i answeared it. if flys did turn up tomoror with atomic weapons...would people still blindly say they were dumb because they didnt speak english and werent human or would people try to communicate because they wear bioharzad suits and are invulnerable to chemical warefare. this is theoritical......but rights are for life, not simply humans - life rights.

nem - the simply reaons why most vege/.vegan's say that being a meateater (even if you dont kill animals) is being a murderer is because we see that by eating meat you are supporting the killing of animals. the same way if you wear real furr, no matter what you say your supporting the furr trade. if you know whats happening in zimbabwe and the horrors there and dont voice your oppionion against it your letting it happen and supporting it.....see what i mean. over here in briton theres a big thing about the fact that while gays and lesbians can get wed....they carnt get married which means they dont have ANY of the legal rights that married couples do.....benefits, entitlements not to mention if one partner dies....the other gets nothing, not even a peice of memrobilia. in thgis case if you support the throry not to allow gays to marry your actually saying they are an underclass.....see.

nature has tried many times to kill us off, yet we complain and are still here. but because we **** up an eco system...for example mankind has over fished many of the seas, we take it out on another speicies. the fact is quite often when a race begins to over breed for the food supply it has it actually slows down again and breeds less.....but that isnt fast enough for teh greed of mankind who wants to eat everything.

LEEZA - i said that earlyer. i never intended to make this a vege thread...only about the seals. but it doesnt do any ahrm to answear peoples questions. then again there is no right way to wear an animals skin..just ckeck out the sites on anal electricution on furr farms.

FALLEN - we currently grow enough crops etc to feed teh world, however many of whats left is discarded with. then again in a starving situation....why not human meat, theres more meat there than on most animals. i know many meat eaters who think it's not a bad idea to farm the humans in third world countries to provide more meat.

i talked with someone else about other less painful ways to cull. in most cases the reasons these things erupt is mans fault. but have anyone heard of nuturing, of being sterilised. while i would never condone it, it is possible in a number of painful and unpainful ways to slow down or compleatly stop reproduction. it's happening naturally in man today as we become more and more infertile. when asked would i rather starve other life i pointed out how starvation is a peacefuller death than clubbing. your stomach hurts and your body shrivals, but eventually you simply pass way in your sleep never knowing rather than screaming your last breaths for help and never being heard. Dr Unne reminded me of a point, you dont take your pet to the vets and then they club it's brains out on the table......nor do they whip out a shotgun and fire away.

SPROUTS ARE EDIBLE>>>BUT HOW MANY OF US CAN STOMACH THEM

[Talus]

i know many meat eaters who think it's not a bad idea to farm the humans in third world countries to provide more meat.

You know many meat eaters that want to harvest people? Who do you hang-out with?

when asked would i rather starve other life i pointed out how starvation is a peacefuller death than clubbing.

So, you're for a slow painful death through starvation over a quick and painless blow to the head?

[Shadow Nexus]

shadow....you posed teh question.....i answeared it. if flys did turn up tomoror with atomic weapons...would people still blindly say they were dumb because they didnt speak english and werent human or would people try to communicate because they wear bioharzad suits and are invulnerable to chemical warefare. this is theoritical......but rights are for life, not simply humans - life rights.

What if they use slingshots? I think this is a very important issue to discuss about. Seriously.

[Snowman]

lol Tal.....i was surpised as well. actually it was one old school pal, three people at university and a chap i met online on a transformers board who also said that if you dont pull your wight in society you should be left behind......you get all sorts.

theres nothing painless about being clubbed over the head.....have you ever had it done to you. watching this brutal person just walk up to you with a blood gorred club while your eyes fill with terror, your unable to run or escape as you wiggle on the ice and snow or even nievely look up at your assailant. screaming for help while the pain fills your entire existance and nothing can save you...watching your lovedones and fellows being murderd the same way. yes i would rather die in my sleep, hecne why we dont go around clubbing our pets or death sentanced criminals.

shadow.....the ancient celts used slingshots against teh invading romans. the romans never actually did anything than invade and assimilate like the borg, they were the nazis of their day while the celts created wonderful works of art in bronze and gold of the stars them selves.

[Shadow Nexus]

shadow.....the ancient celts used slingshots against teh invading romans. the romans never actually did anything than invade and assimilate like the borg, they were the nazis of their day while the celts created wonderful works of art in bronze and gold of the stars them selves.

OK, first flies with slingshots and now Star Treck. This is getting too sad, stop it or I'll kill a kitten. With my teeth.

[Iceglow]

ozzy osbourne beat you to it only he ate a snake or a bat

[DocFrance]

lol Tal.....i was surpised as well. actually it was one old school pal, three people at university and a chap i met online on a transformers board who also said that if you dont pull your wight in society you should be left behind......you get all sorts.

So five people equates to "many"?

[Snowman]

thats not funny shadow...thats sad.
but if you look historically all the romans did was assimilate other cultures gods and technoligies.

when you consider DOC that one man last night fought his way through the class and killed everyone without taking a wound (i take my prize with a grin), or that anyone one of those five is likly to have freinds who think similaryly to them who inturn got it from somewhere. it only takes one mans veiw to change a world when likeminded people embrace it. or should i make it a quest to travel the world on a shoe string and find as many people as there are out there who agree with this so i can come back and list them all in detail.

[Shadow Nexus]

thats not funny shadow...thats sad.

What is sad? I'm sorry, but I fail to understand your posts.

[SomethingBig]

Sorry if this is completely irrelevant to what this conversation/debate has become. I really didn't feel like reading through 50 billion posts.

Please, no one take offense to the things I say. If you really think that humans and animals are equal, then there's really something wrong. Animals act on instinct. They don't feel love or hate. They don't have consciences. Their thoughts are usually, "Hunt. Run. Eat. Kill. Fornication." When it's mating season, they fornicate the nearest and most attractive female/male they see. Animals don't have personalities. They can't choose their mate because of personality.

You say that it's absolutely horrible to kill animals for food, Snow, but you wouldn't hesitate to kill every bastard that has laid a finger on an animal. That's the most hypocritical thing I've ever heard. Adult male lions kill cubs that aren't part of their tribes for no reason, do you see a problem with that? Do we humans kill children and babies that aren't part of our families?

Conscience. The ability to think beyond our natural instincts. These things are what differentiates us from animals and make us superior. Our minds help us to advance in life and whatnot. Animals cannot do that. You don't see kangaroos making submarines; you don't see fish making suits that allow them to survive on land. No matter how you look at it, humans are superior to animals. We are not equal.

[Leeza]

Conscience. The ability to think beyond our natural instincts. These things are what differentiates us from animals and make us superior. Our minds help us to advance in life and whatnot. Animals cannot do that. - SomethingBig

Exactly. That is what this thread is about. Humans should be able to use their minds to advance and get above unnecessary cruelty, but some just don't and I have no compassion for these people.

[Emerald Aeris]

"Adult male lions kill cubs that aren't part of their tribes for no reason, do you see a problem with that?"

Lions don't kill them for no reason. The point of mating is to further your own DNA (in the lion world). Other cubs pose a threat to that, so they're killed, and the male mates with their mothers. It seems cruel to us, but that's the way their society works, if you can call it that. There's always a reason.

"These things are what differentiates us from animals and make us superior. Our minds help us to advance in life and whatnot. Animals cannot do that. You don't see kangaroos making submarines; you don't see fish making suits that allow them to survive on land. No matter how you look at it, humans are superior to animals. We are not equal."

I think we're more advanced than animals, but I don't think we're superior. Humans tend to be so ego centric. We're killing the Earth and we don't care. We're advancing, but also breeding to the point where we're exceeding the capacity of the Earth. Is that really superiority? We're also stupid. We won't stop advancing, and in doing so, I think we'll destroy ourselves. Or at least do a lot of damage. I tend to be a pessimist when it comes to the future of humanity though.

We may create a lot of wonderful things, but we also destroy. I think it balances out. Animals can't do evil, they don't have the capacity, but because they don't, they also can't do good in the same way. Humans do both. That's why I think we're equal.

On the seals: Yeah, that sucked. Fur is wrong, and ugly. However, I have read statitics that the seal population in the north atlantic was millions upon millions of seals, and was having a negative effect on fish populations. That particular species of seal is NOT endangered, threatened or even close to the sort. There's a lot of kinds of seals, y'know. Please consider these things before you get on your PETA high horse.

Hm, how do you justify being cruel to animals like that? I mean, why are their rights dealing with pain so different from ours? We feel pain in the same way. I don't think sentience should make such a big difference. If a species more advaned than us decided I needed to be clubbed, I wouldn't be very happy.

[Snowman]

joking about murdering kittens shadow.....i dont appriciate it

Somethingbig - im afriad your wrong on your first point Somthingbig.....ive been involved with animals all my life and they do indeed have personalities and emotions such as love and hate. but as always you have to not be prejudgemental and allow them to prove it themselves.
you dont have to worry, theres nothing wrong. Theres nothign on this earth that says mankind is worth more or above other life on this planet or even in existance. certainly you could follow relligions which may claim so...but they are also responsible for major wars throughout histpory and often have stolen celebrations and idea from previsous religions such as christianity stealing easter form the pagans and germanic origins. your right that animals do act on their nature, they are not able to go shopping at morrisons or learn mathmatics....while we who are simply animals are able to because one way or the other we have a gift or curse. Heard that old spidy sentance - with great power comes great responsibility. yet we are still obssesd with our own viloent nature and want to fornicate and reproduce.....

im not hypocritical and if you HAD read through all of my posts you would have read me explain exactly what i meant. as too the points you made, yes we do, heard of abortion. or the fact that children are sold into rape and slavery in many third world countries such as the current debacle in zimbabwe.

by your logic the aboriginies who were behind the times compared to the advances of those who would settle on australia are below us....that too applys to the indians native to america who did not have guns and silly hats. technological accomplishment entitles us to nothing, it gives us no god given rights....we also created weapons capable of killing everything on this earth. doesnt make us supirior as the nazis claimed....it makes us dangerous.

GOOD POINT LEEZA. ive often noticed how people want to be above instincts and animals nature...yet they enjoy acting like many animals. we carnt have it both ways

great points Emerald Aeris. however pertaining seals. ive said many times that the problems of this world and the chaos animals are thrown into is often caused by mankind....for example if we hadnt depleate fish stocks so recently to the point where they are scarce then the seals may not have overgrown this way. i also made no assosication with PETA.
you should read some of my other posts where i point out that there are many differning ways to get population spurts undercontrol that dont involve the brutal murder of the creatures involved