Theory on HP and Strength (some spoilers)

[DocFrance]

A lot of things in the Final Fantasy universe (or any RPG, for that matter) don't make a whole lot of sense. Among those are two common character stats - HP and Strength.

Many people associate HP with a character's "health." When Tidus has full HP, he is in perfect health; when he dwindles down to 50 HP he is on death's door; and when his HP hits 0 he dies. However, too many things don't make sense with health. Cloud has about 300 HP at the start of FF7. The first enemy he encounters, a Shinra guard, shoots him in the face with a machine gun and inflicts 7 HP damage. 7! You would expect a machine gun would do more than reduce your ability to live by 3%. To make matters worse, this guy's buddy runs up and smacks Cloud in the stomach with his nightstick, and inflicts more damage than the machine gun. What gives?

That's why I say that HP is more of a representation of endurance rather than health. When I say endurance, I mean the character's ability to block, evade, and/or absorb attacks. What does this mean? Let's go through the FF7 scenario again. The guard that's supposed to shoot Cloud - he's not very good at what he does. He's probably some rent-a-cop being paid minimum wage to guard a train station. Maybe he even has poor eyesight. Needless to say, he's not a very good shot. So he fires in the general direction of his spikey-haired assailant and misses. Cloud does have to exert some effort to get out of this guy's line of sight, so his endurance is going to decrease. Obviously, he can't keep dodging bullets all day, but with this guy's aim, he could last for a good amount of time. A stray bullet or two might graze his skin, causing him to lose a lot of endurance - this would be a "critical hit."

So the second guard gets tired of Ray Charles doing the fighting and decides to take matters into his own hands. He runs up and plants a nice smack in the middle of Cloud's stomach with his nightstick. Cloud, of course, has rock-solid abs, and is able to absorb most of the blow my pulling back and flexing his stomach. At most, it might knock the wind out of him for a second or two, hurting his ability to absorb more of those attacks. As Cloud's endurance decreases, he becomes more tired, and is able to block, evade, or absorb fewer and fewer attacks. Also, more powerful enemies will make it harder for Cloud to dodge its attacks. So if an enemy inflicts 295 out of 300 HP damage, Cloud still dodges the attack - but maybe he had to dislocate his shoulder and use his face as a shield to do so. Don't ask me - Cloud doesn't seem like the most mentally stable person around.

"Aha!" you might say, "What about the evasion stat?" Well, my loud friend, let me tell you what about. Evasion, according to my theory, is simply the percentage of attacks the character will be able to avoid effortlessly, with no reduction of his or her ability to avoid further attacks. So when Locke "evades" an attack, he is doing almost nothing to avoid being hit - maybe he's hiding behind a tree. This is why "evasion" occurs on a percentage basis, while "hits" happen every other time.

So what happens when Quistis loses all her HP? Quite simple - she passes out. Only a special "Phoenix Down" or a Raise spell ("Life" is a misnomer in this case) can get her back into the game. Even then, she's going to be groggy, and her HP will thusly still be low. This allows us to side-step the age-old question: "Why didn't they use a Life spell on Aeris?" Answer: "Because she had a large sword run through her spinal column, silly."

On to the next subject: strength. For starters, strength is all fine and dandy when it comes to melee weapons. Obviously, it takes some physical strength to wield any sort of sword, axe, stave, dagger, katana, spear, book, paintbrush, rod, harp, or accordion. Where this theory breaks down can be centered on one character in particular: Irvine Kinneas.

Irvine is a sharpshooter by trade, and a self-proclaimed ladies' man. Some would just call him a pompous ass, but I digress. What makes him such an an anomaly to the idea of "strength" is that when his strength stat is higher, he will do more damage. This is where your brain should screech to a halt and scream "DOES NOT COMPUTE!" For the most part, we all know how guns work. Pulling the trigger harder will not make a rifle any more powerful (try all you like, though).

Fear not, brave citizens, for I have the answers that you seek! You see, "strength" is not really a measure of physical strength, per se. Instead, it is a measure of a character's battle prowess. So when Irvine's strength increases (God, I hate junctioning), he is really getting better at fighting in battle - in other words, his aim is getting better. This means that he will inflict more damage on his targets. Or, if you subscribe to my HP theory, he's making it much harder for his targets to dodge his attacks.

Wow, that was long. Well, time for me to go recover whatever I have left of my life.

[The Captain]

Wow, mighty impressive. However, I'd watch my step for a while. If word that Square's secrets have been figured out, they may come looking....

Take care all.

[Rase]

You know, I've often thought that HP one. But nice thinking on the strength.

[Mo-Nercy]

Fear not, brave citizens, for I have the answers that you seek! You see, "strength" is not really a measure of physical strength, per se. Instead, it is a measure of a character's battle prowess. So when Irvine's strength increases (God, I hate junctioning), he is really getting better at fighting in battle - in other words, his aim is getting better. This means that he will inflict more damage on his targets. Or, if you subscribe to my HP theory, he's making it much harder for his targets to dodge his attacks.

Isn't Irvine some super duper kamehameha sharpshooter marksman guy? Shouldn't his aim be excellent from the beginning. In other words, shouldn't he be dealing 9999 as soon as you get him. Another thing, what about the Hit stat? I would think that Hit WAS the ability to aim.

[Xnesis]

So the second guard gets tired of Ray Charles doing the fighting and decides to take matters into his own hands. He runs up and plants a nice smack in the middle of Cloud's stomach with his nightstick. Cloud, of course, has rock-solid abs,

"Why didn't they use a Life spell on Aeris?" Answer: "Because she had a large sword run through her spinal column, silly."


For the most part, we all know how guns work. Pulling the trigger harder will not make a rifle any more powerful (try all you like, though).

L....M.....A.....O


these quotes had me cryin like a japanese school girl accidentally crappin her skirt when she tried to fart....

[DJZen]

This whole THREAD has me laughing like that. Tee hee, Ray Charles.... I have a different theory though. This has to do with the misconception of what a sword does that I mention every 3-5 threads. Swords with sharpened edges are made to do slashing damage. This means you cut ALONG the flesh. If you try to hack your way THROUGH the flesh of whatever, you're going to get your sword stuck. If you manage to slice clean through something, wow, that's pretty impressive, but you're not going to have an easy time doing it. You need a HEAVY sword for that and you need to put a high amount of strength behind it. Bone and muscle just aren't easy to hack through. Even then, you're probably going to get your sword stuck in the ground or something.

Now, what does this have to do with stats? Most people seem to think that when you attack your enemies with a sword in a FF game, you're cutting through them or something. Nope. You're slashing them, and yes, that WOULD hurt. In fact, you'd lose blood from it. You might even have irreversible damage done, but that's not as much of a concern if you have a white mage throwing Cure3 at you. Remember, magic can do anything. When you slash someone, the harder you slash, the deeper the cut will go and the more damage you will do. However, this does not explain projectile weapons such as arrows, bullets or shuriken. To fire an arrow, you need to pull back the string, and let me tell you, that can really suck. The English longbow had so much tension in the string that in order to pull it to the point where it would do you any good, you had to really work at it. This is where strength comes in. The farther back you pull the string, the more force is put behind the arrow, thus allowing it to penetrate further. However, this would probably kill most people instantly. This is where armor comes into play. If you're hit with a blade while wearing armor, you won't get cut, but you still get hit, and it really sucks. Sooner or later, you're going to get knocked around in your armor enough to get knocked out. Shuriken I'm not as familiar with so I can't explain how being stronger would cause them to do more damage, but it's definitely true that strength can't explain bullets. The only thing I can even think of is that it might somehow be a metaphor for how good that character is at chosing vital targets. Shooting a rentacop from Shinra in his armored torso will hurt him, yes, but not as much as shooting him in his sensitive face mask. Ah well, stats make about as much sense as Gunblades sometimes.... *shrug*

[Rase]

Shuriken I'm not as familiar with so I can't explain how being stronger would cause them to do more damage,

Shuriken are more about skill than anything else. Even if someone like Govener Ah-nold throw one as hard as he could, a 140lb Japanese guy who'd trained his life throwing shuriken could easily or distance him and throw it with more force. So maybe STR. with shuriken is the amount of skill the person has with throwing them.