Voted Down!

[The Captain]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=540&ncid=716

So, it seems the conflict will endure.

What's your reaction?

Take care all.

[Big D]

Damn. Sharon's being making an increasing number of steps toward peace lately, it's a shame that his own government won't back his initiatives.

No solution is going to come to this conflict if just one side makes concessions; without firm commitment to disengage and withdraw to justifiable boundaries, the murdering will continue.

[Dr Unne]

The conflict would've endured even had the vote gone the other way. If you make two nations and set up boundaries, they'll just have a well-defined line to stand behind when they fire their missiles at each other.

[Big D]

I'm not so sure... it would never be enough to please the fanatical hard-liners like Hamas, but it surely would've been a good start - for Israel to withdraw from some of the lands it's seized during the long-running dispute. If Israel and Palestine become separate nations, with clearly defined borders and equitable amounts of land depending on their circumstances, then things will get better. For now, though, Israel is viewed by some as an amorphous entity, occasionally growing and engulfing more of the surrounding territory without having a definite 'edge' that can be demarked.

[gokufusionss1]

i hope the left are happy considering the berating they've given this plan, so now the palistinians get nothing let the gunning down of children continue.

[War Angel]

it's a shame that his own government won't back his initiatives.

If it were up for the goverment to decide, it would've probably passed. Thing is, the call for decision was made to every Likud party member (around 30,000 people). At first, it seemed like it's going to finally work the right way... and then, all of them said "WTF?! Are we actually gonna make the right choice?! No way! Let's bring this down!". And so, the last sane way of dealing with this situation was brushed aside by sheer idiocy.

Since one side is clearly not ready to talk, let alone make peace, the choice of action has been left in the hands of Israel. There are a few main paths:

1) Deportation, removal of the Arab population from Israeli territories. Unless you're a Nazi, this isn't much of a good idea. So, we're left with nearly 4 million Arabs sitting in Israeli land.

2) Giving all those Palestinian Arabs Israeli citizenship, creating an Arab majority within Israel, thus annihiliating the Jewish state (and quite possibly the Jews as well), and also the democratic way. Not a very good idea either, at least not for Israel.

3) Complete and utter detachment - two states, side by side. Israel decides where it draws its borders, hopefully with as little hostile Arab population within it. If the Arabs ever wish to discuss peace, they can do so. If not, Israel will maintain its right to exist.

So, it is clear for every logical, sane person that the only possible solution is the third one. No, it's not a nice one, clearly... but it's the only possible way. Now, Sharon's plan was very similiar, with only a few minor flaws that could've been dealt with (like, including some pain-in-the-arse settlements, including hostile Arab population. A simple few markings on the map). Now, this has been cast aside, and we all ask... why? For what?

[The Captain]

Could it be strictly for politics, that Sharon is being strong-armed out of office? I've read that several members of Government are disgruntled with him.

Take care all.

[Big D]

Giving all those Palestinian Arabs Israeli citizenship, creating an Arab majority within Israel, thus annihiliating the Jewish state

I feel compelled to ask... why is it necessary to maintain a "Jewish state", i.e. a place where the majority are of one ethnicity and/or religion? Most other places get by, simply accepting whoever lives there. My own country is largely of English caucasian descent, but there's little objection to increased numbers of other cultures. I just don't really see why Israel "must" remain Arab-free.

[War Angel]

The Jews desire a state, that will encompass who they are. The Jews need a place where their history, culture and religion are reflected through the state itself. They have been denied that for 2000 years.

My own country is largely of English caucasian descent, but there's little objection to increased numbers of other cultures

Is the official language English? Do you have Christmas shows on TV, on Christmas? Then, my friend, your countr is English and Christian by its nature. It may not be as dominant, as it is in other places... but it's there.

It's quite simple, really. Some people desire to have a state of their own, where they can revel at their distinction, etc. Most people have that - Arabs certainly do. Last time I checked, they had 23 countries to choose from. The Jews have but one - Israel.

So, in order for the Jewish life-style to be maintained in Israel, along with its democratic nature (both which are treasured by the Jews here), there mustn't be an Arab majority, for they stand against those two values. They are not Jewish, and they are not democratic.

[Big D]

I see your point; too often, the minority culture ceases to be. Hopefully, though, current progress will continue, as it has begun to to around the world, to preserve and cherish the vulnerable, smaller groups' ways of life.

I see no reason why being Arab should prevent someone from living in a multicultural, democratic society; however, since many Arab states are rigid Islamic institutions, the majority of emigrants from such places will be seeking a similar home... simply belonging to the Arab ethnicity doesn't dictate one's preferred regime, but the history and nationality of many leads to that desire.

Is the official language English? Do you have Christmas shows on TV, on Christmas? Then, my friend, your countr is English and Christian by its nature. It may not be as dominant, as it is in other places... but it's there.

Completely true; however, anyone is completely free to celebrate their culture and beliefs; everything from Hanukah and Ramadan, to Christmas, to Chinese and Jewish New Year and the Festival of Lights gets mentioned in the news, and anyone who wishes can celebrate, or observe the celebration and learn a bit more about another culture. Good way to be, but then again, my country is mostly free of conflict and tension; it's understandable that the same degree of intermingling just isn't a real possibility in a strife-torn and turbulent part of the world.

[Doomgaze]

Quite simply, if there was an Arab majority in Israel, they would pass a law to the effect of "Kill All Jews," or at least "Deport All Jews."

[War Angel]

Hopefully, though, current progress will continue, as it has begun to to around the world, to preserve and cherish the vulnerable, smaller groups' ways of life.

The Jews have stopped counting on others to 'reserve' their 'uniqueness'. They now have a state, with a very powerful army, and even more powerful convictions.

I see no reason why being Arab should prevent someone from living in a multicultural, democratic society;

You might not see how anyone would want to live in a dictatored country, but they do. It's natural for them. It suits their religious and cultural beliefs, and it's what they had for centuries now.

Completely true; however, anyone is completely free to celebrate their culture and beliefs;

Same here. However, the state is recognised as the state of the Jews, the State of Israel. The official language is Hebrew, the flag has David's Star and is shaped like a talit (prayer cloth covering for men), the anthem, the nations symbols, even the army units' names and holiday shows on TV... these are all Jewish. The Jews are proud of these, and are comfortable with them. Should a majority of any non-Jews form here, by right of the democratic system, they could use their power as a majority to abolish these things, and instate their own.

Quite simply, if there was an Arab majority in Israel, they would pass a law to the effect of "Kill All Jews," or at least "Deport All Jews."

Don't be so harsh. It could also be 'Enslave all Jews', or 'Re-indoctrinate all Jews'...

[Doomgaze]

Yes, I suppose. It would be like the US, they would call it the Patriot Act or the Allahu Ackbar Act so no one would vote against it.