The future of jerusalem

[Clyde Arronway]

Fact 1) the western wall of the temple is slowly falling down. It cannot be fixed. The orthodox jews believe it's a sign from God and are even more incited to rebuild their temple NOW.

Fact 2) the dome on the rock does not stand directly over solomon's temple but is (I believe) either on arab land or on land that the arabs have some authorory over

Fact 3) Jerusalem is way overdue for a major earthquake that will probably destroy both the entire western wall and the dome on the rock.

So, what's gonna happen when the jews want to rebuild the temple and the dome no longer stands. will there be a new mosque standing side by side? will the jews rebuild the temple without performing the God given sanctification commands (which would by necessity mean absolute destruction of everything islamic on the mout)?

be fruitful and discuss!

[War Angel]

O_o....

Errr... what are you on about? What earth-quake? What re-building of the temple? Maybe you think aliens will come as wel...

There isn't much to be said of this. The Western wall stand proud, as it has been for the past 3,400 years, the Dome Mosque is in good shape (it's going through ronvations), and it's also very young (less than 400 years, I believe). Earth-quakes have yet to occur in the area of Jerusalem.

No-one, but deluded fanatics (and I mean DELUDED, as in, not sane), is talking about building the Third Temple. The last one was destroyed in 70 AD, and there's no need for a new, third one. Besides - the Dome Mosque (along with other Muslim-aligned buildings) have been built on that area. It's impossible to built there (or even trespass), without inciting massive rage in the Arab\Muslim world (which isn't really that hard to do, anyway...).

[Clyde Arronway]

err... no
The jewish antiquities authority has stated that the wall is falling down and it cannot be fixed. It's already injured one orthodox jew when a stone hit his head.

all the true jewish orthodox want the temple back. what's more, almost each one of the six percent of americans who profess fundimentalist christianity want the temple rebuilt because it marks the imminent return of christ. (respectfully, the belief that two entire ethinic groups are insane may be indicitive of some pretty serious propoganda. I'm not trying to be insulting, just somthing for you to think about... but, onward...)

the earthquake is supposed to be stronger than most anything israel has ever seen, epicenter: the temple mount. certantly it's not just going to fall over, but it won't survive. and as for muslim rage... israel really doesn't care. the fact that it's wiped the middle east with the butts of the entire arab world more than once has made them (justifiably) apathetic to what the arab world says. Science states that this destruction will happen... what will happen afterwards is the point of this thread.

you must also understand that the entire world has not accepted postmodernism. when God says, "build a temple" even if he said so 2300 years ago (rougly the time of ezra) the devout do so. period. that doesn't make them deluded. to be insane, one has to have several traits, on of the first of which being irrational action. True faith is nothing if not rational, because beleif in what you cannot know is no belief at all.

and no aliens. nothing ever seen in the night sky has ever been confirmed as anything nonhuman.

[Big D]

Jerusalem is one the most holy sites in the world for Christians, Muslims and Jews alike. It should be a place where all cultures can celebrate their common history, and unify by overcoming dogmatic and cultural divides. Jerusalem should be a place that's cherished for and by everyone....

Instead, it's in the middle of violent bloodshed, a place that's basically at the heart of divisive hatred. It's often proposed as a 'bargaining chip', a token to be traded for land or cease-fires.

I think it's pretty sad that such an important place should suffer so much because of human intolerance.

[Dr Unne]

Clyde Arronway, this seems almost like a religious discussion rather than a world-events discussion. I don't see how a lot of what you've said has anything to do with reality.

Science states that this destruction will happen... what will happen afterwards is the point of this thread. --Clyde Arronway

I've never heard this. Could you provide a source?

As for what would happen if Jerusalem was destroyed in an earthquake, maybe it'd be one less thing for people to murder each other over. Maybe seeing the "holy city" demolished in a random, meaningless natural disaster would wake some people up in the world.

Then again, maybe people from various religious groups would rush into the newly-opened area in a blind, violent fury, eager to grab up lands for themselves and also eager to slaughter all who would trespass, all in the name of Yahweh the Destroyer. Probably much more likely. JudeoChristiMoslems have had a couple thousand years to work out their differences with each other, and there has probably been progress in that time, but extremely slow and won at great cost; I don't see that much of anything is going to change drastically any time soon.



Jerusalem should be a place that's cherished for and by everyone.... --Big D

If I understand you correctly (I may not), this is almost an insult to non-JudeoChristiMoslems in the world. Of which there are quite a few. Jerusalem means nothing more to me than any other city for example. Nor does it mean anything to a Buddhist, a Taoist, or a Hindu, so far as I would guess.

[Doomgaze]

It means nothing to you as a historical site?

Are non-muslims allowed in the Dome, or is there some kind of restriction?

[Dr Unne]

It means nothing more to me than any other city. Are there a lot of books kept there? If the city were destroyed, I'd mourn the loss of a library, just like I'd mourn the loss of one in any other city. I'd mourn the loss of artwork or historical architecture, I guess. I wouldn't mourn the loss of Jerusalem due to any religious significance though.

[War Angel]

It's already injured one orthodox jew when a stone hit his head.

The smallest, lightest stones in the wall are around 30-40 tons. I doubt any of them could've fell down, 'injured' (how the hell does a rock the weight of a tank only 'injure'?!) a praying man, and I wouldn't heard anything of it on the news. Very, very unlikely.

the earthquake is supposed to be stronger than most anything israel has ever seen, epicenter: the temple mount

Are you saying we can now predict earth-quakes long before they happen, and the EXACT starting location?! Wow! That's really great! [/sarcasm]

that doesn't make them deluded

Wanting to re-built a temple destroyed almost two mellenias ago, in this time and place, is the thought of a deluded, un-realistic religious moron. Sorry. Just go out to God and say "Sorry mate, but that temple thing will just have to wait. Might take a while, so hang in there, buddy!".

Jerusalem is one the most holy sites in the world for Christians, Muslims and Jews alike.

The Jews built it in some 3,000 years ago (A thousand years before the rise of Christianity, and 1600 years before the rise of Islam) and held it for a very good deal of years, the Christians have stories of their prophet being in it, and the Muslims conquered it. That's all the connection anyone has to that place. No monotheistic religion worships buildings or cities, and the city itself is not 'Holy'. It simply holds a great meaning. Only, the Jews have history there, while the others don't.

I've never heard this. Could you provide a source?

www.falsenews.com

It means nothing to you as a historical site?

To me, it does. A whole lot. My people built it some 3,000 years ago, and have been living in it ever since, with a soveriegn rule for a large portion of that time. All the others have are their religious beliefs and convictions - not a real, undeniable material foothold in Jerusalem. It's where the Israeli kings lived and ruled from, where many great battles took place... to me, the meaning of Jerusalem is like London is to the English, and Paris to the French. Only mine has an extra 2000+ years on those.

Are non-muslims allowed in the Dome, or is there some kind of restriction?

While the Israelis had control over it, everyone was allowed. Recently, the Arabs gained control of it, and since then, it's been a closed parameter for any non-Muslim. The last non-Muslim to go there, if I am not mistaken, was Ariel Sharon, and that was the trigger excuse to start the current Intifada.

[Doc Sark]

Unne, you forgot to say you would mourn the loss of people, surely you would mourn the loss of people above material things?

I think to ignore the significance of Jerusalem as a religious city is naive. It is considered to be built upon the holiest of holy lands to many religions, ok you mentioned some above which it doesn't concern but I would imagine much of the literature and artwork that has come from Jerusalem bears the religious history of the city in mind, from biblical times, to the crusades, to the present day therefore you could not mourn its destruction without acknowledging the religious influences that provided the inspiration for it to come into existence in the first place. I am not a religious man in any way but I would certainly mourn Jerusalem for its religious significance because religion in most countries I can think of, is the foundation of society.

http://www.jnewswire.com/news_archiv...0211_quake.asp

Read about recent seismic activity in Israel. Apparently this one cracked the Knesset.

[War Angel]

Read about recent seismic activity in Israel. Apparently this one cracked the Knesset.

It was less than 4 on the Richter scale, and no-one even felt it. People did not 'stream' into the streets, like that article says. And, also, Israel has been the focus of many earth-quakes, since it sits right on the African-Syrian tactonic border. If the wall hasn't fallen down yet, I doubt it ever will. Besides, reinforcements have been made, and will continue to be made to assure the survival of that historic and religious monument.

Anyone saying stuff about some apocalyptic earth-quake is a doom-sayer, and nothing more. There's no way to predict earth-quakes, let alone 50 (!) years in advance.

[Doc Sark]

I totally agree with you, however i believe the Earthquake was stronger than you say although I won't bicker with you over a few decimal places, and like you say, as does the article, it caused little damage. Unfortunately there aren't too many sources that are 100% accurate, exaggeration and mediation is all part of the package with news services.

You're right though, unless someone has a crystal ball and can see into the future there really is no way to pre-empt (by any significant amount of time anyway) when a natural disaster such as this will occur. According to the artice a massive Earthquake has been prophesised but that doesn't amount to solid evidence Jerusalems destruction is imminent. Like you say, Doom-sayers.

[Doomgaze]

Doc Sark - You know, War Angel DOES live in Israel. I think he has a better idea of how bad the earthquakes are than you do.

[Doc Sark]

I'm sorry Doomgaze did you have something relevant to add to the discussion? I am well aware that War Angel lives in Israel hence why I agreed with pretty much everything he said.

[Dr Unne]

Unne, you forgot to say you would mourn the loss of people, surely you would mourn the loss of people above material things? --Doc Sark

Yes.

I am not a religious man in any way but I would certainly mourn Jerusalem for its religious significance because religion in most countries I can think of, is the foundation of society.

Not in my country.

[Doc Sark]

What country do you livein then Unne, where the morals and values dictated to you by your society were not based upon some religious doctrine?