Don't you wish you were an Arab woman too?

[Dr Unne]

A somewhat graphic image.

Can you even conceive of something like that happening in the US? To a newscaster? I know that men beat women in our society too, but I think the difference is that here, wife-beaters are seen almost universally as one of the lowest forms of scum alive. I really have a hard time even imagining a culture where women are seen as inherenly inferior to men.


Although Islam prohibits violence against women, many believe spousal abuse is common in the almost entirely Muslim Saudi Arabia.

There are no statistics available on wife abuse in the kingdom, but husbands rarely meet disapproval for "reforming" spouses deemed "disobedient" by hitting them.

...

Bashatah pointed out that Saudi women need to be accompanied by a male guardian even if they want to go to the police to report abuse.

Saudi law requires a woman to be accompanied by a male guardian -- her husband, or, for unmarried women, her father, brother or son -- on almost any public chore. Saudi women also are not allowed to drive.

[Big D]

Well, until just recently, the concept of 'marital rape' didn't exist, it was legally impossible for a man to rape his wife - and that's in our mighty and idealistic Western culture. Violence against women, treating them as inferior has long been humanity's shame - no culture is innocent of it. People have always used religion as an excuse for this power imbalance, too. Christians, Muslims, whoever.

Women are still treated worse than their male counterparts, denied job opportunities and paid less than men with similar qualifications. Like it or not, our culture still treats women as inferior.

I believe that the intensity with which women are repressed by strict Islamic states is repulsive, and needs to be changed in order to bring their societies forward... but really, other cultures need to look at their own history and own present reality before looking for another excuse to lash out at Arabs in general. "Gender equality" is still a myth everywhere; spousal abuse harms far more women than men, and victims are always afraid to report it. The worst traits of humanity are the ones found most often.

[War Angel]

Women get beat up for the same reason children do - they're smaller and weaker than just about any man. Weak-hearted men take advantage of their superior physical strength, and abuse women and children.

Also - for once, I don't think there's a firm connection between this happening in a Muslim Arab nation, to the actual event. However, I do think this woman must be extremely brave, to show her face like that, to all the country. I don't know what will become of her because of it (she might be executed), but I think that it brings a problem that exists everywhere, but is not spoken of in Muslim countries (because women have almost no saying there).

[Nemesis the Warlock]

There is a big discussion about that here in Holland right now. France deported a muslim cleric for preaching that women should be beaten when they lie to their husbands, and that homosexual men should be stoned to death.

The El-Tawheed mosque here in Amsterdam sells the book "The way of the muslim", which also says women who lie to their husbands should be beaten with sticks, and girls should be circumcised. The government is discussing whether this should be banned.

There is something wrong with a religion that preaches violence.

[Shadow Nexus]

Don't expect much from a fundamentalist country. And yet, as Big D said, here you also have discrimination, although it's obviously lower.

And well, this is nothing new, it happens every day, everywhere. Dilapidations, clitoris mutilation, margination, etc. And the only solution, I guess, is for woman such as this one, to fight back. And really, even if the story in that article is not a happy one, I like to know women such as this exist.

And this occurs in Spain too. In the last year, wife beatings increased by a 33%. It also occurs a lot in Germany too, I don't know about US though. About this, the songwriter Víctor Manuel did quite an interesting short video he directed himself. It's called "The Club of Dead Women":

http://www.clubcultura.com/haymotivo/video30.htm

Oh, yeah, it shows a little nudity. It's interesting though, I can translate the lyrics if someone is interested.

[Nemesis the Warlock]

Yes, wife-beating happens all over the world. The difference is that it's a crime in all civilised countries. Telling people domestic violence and mutilation of children are their religious duty is evil. There's no other word for it.
Holland used to be proud of its tolerance. Now it tolerates imams preaching not to tolerate gay men and Jews. On the other hand, several Dutch journalists were recently censored or even suspended for criticising islamic fundamentalism. Never criticise the Arabs, we'd have no petrol without them, and we all love our cars more than human rights.

[Dr Unne]

I agree that Christian fundamentalism is almost as bad as Islamic fundamentalism when it comes to gender equality and lack thereof. For example, read http://www.momof9splace.com/obey.html

Women are still treated worse than their male counterparts, denied job opportunities and paid less than men with similar qualifications. Like it or not, our culture still treats women as inferior. --Big D

Not paying a woman as much as a man for a job, compared with condoning beating your wife or forbidding her from showing her face in public or learning to drive or sometimes even to go to school. I will agree that both are different degrees of the same thing, but the difference in degree is so great as to make the comparison almost pointless.

I believe that the intensity with which women are repressed by strict Islamic states is repulsive, and needs to be changed in order to bring their societies forward... but really, other cultures need to look at their own history and own present reality before looking for another excuse to lash out at Arabs in general.

Why? We used to have slavery in this country; does that if a modern-day country practices slavery, that I have no room to criticize them? I don't care about the past. I myself never have seen women as inferior; anyone who does, I'm going to criticize.

[Shadow Nexus]

Thanks for that link, Unne, it made me vomit (The Christian one)

As for the whole wife beating thing, most islamic imans do not believe in it. Those who defend wife beating are a few, as far as I know, and as far as my experience goes with muslims, none of them has ever defended such actions.

Then we have the extremist christians, who are just as bad. In fact, the founder of the Popular Party (That one who left our goverment last month, thanks God) said something "If wifes get beaten, it's because they have done something". Yeah, marrying an asshole.

[Big D]

Fortunately, many Arabic countries are modernising, just as the West did in the past. The old intolerances are doomed to die; it's an inevitable societal change, I believe.

I don't care about the past. I myself never have seen women as inferior; anyone who does, I'm going to criticize.

So if you see an Arab woman being treated as inferior, you'll criticise the Arab ethnicity in general? That's what the thread title sounds like...
All I'm saying is that women still don't get equal opportunities and rewards, even in our countries, so everyone still has work to do with regards to equal rights.

On a slightly related matter, recent statistics have shown a huge increase in the amount of domestic violence inflicted on men by their female spouses in western countries... it's just reported less.

[Ariel]

It's scary that that sort of thing goes on in the world. It's even scarier that our government ignores it, and even condones it, in a way. Muslim women in Indonesia are treated in similar ways to the ones Shadow Nexus mentioned. And the Australian government still gives Indonesia millions of dollars every year in aid. Sigh.

I agree that the majority of religions have persecuted women in their extremist forms. Christian and Muslim alike. I just hope that education will change that way of thinking over time.

Oh, yeah. From that link...

"A woman is different in her body, in her intrestests, in her thinking, in her abilities: not inferior—different."

That's definitely the most hypocritical statement I've read in ages. xD

[Dr Unne]

So if you see an Arab woman being treated as inferior, you'll criticise the Arab ethnicity in general? That's what the thread title sounds like... --Big D

I'll criticize any culture or philosophy which includes violence towards women or tolerance of violence towards women. I'm not sure I'd use the word "ethnicity"; I prefer "belief system" or "culture". You're probably trying to imply that I'm stereotyping. I'm not saying all Arab men beat their wives; I'm saying that it's apparently part of Arab culture that wife-beating is OK, or that many people (not all people, only many) ignore it or condone it, and that I dislike the culture for that reason (and also dislike those individuals who participate in treating women badly).

I just hope that education will change that way of thinking over time. --Ariel

Which is probably why many countries refuse to let women attend school.

[Shadow Nexus]

Unne, you may say arab culture may look discriminative against women, specially in the whole making them wear a blanket (Or a veil, whatever it's called) over their head, or considering she must stay at home. My experience in arab countires is more or less extense, I even lived in Tunisia for two months, and I could aprreaciate women were not treated the same way as men, but they were allowed to work too, only the conservative sides had some problems in that. OK, so Tunisia is rather modern (Not more than Egypt, where women were allowed to vote in 1919) but as for conservative muslim countires, I do not believe something such as wife beating is condoned. Opression is, though. I remember in Egypt, all this saudi guys who went to the hotel with four women, all covered up in black, only showing the eyes. I found it horrible, really, so it feels good to see someone there fights against such opression and fundamnetalist puritanism.

[Shlup]

I haven't read the entire thread since its obvious that judging someone inferior for any reason is disgusting, but I just wanted to comment on this:

Well, until just recently, the concept of 'marital rape' didn't exist, it was legally impossible for a man to rape his wife

This isn't really an issue against women, since it would also apply if a wife were to rape her husband. Or course females raping males is uncommon, but I'm just sayin' is all.

[fire_of_avalon]

Still, Bashatah said Saudi courts have judged in favor of abused women before.

I just love how that was kind of tossed in at the end.

[Mikztsu]

The sad part is, that many muslim women/girls feels that these "rules" are just best for them. They wouldn't just have to accept their "role", if some people could unite...and stuff. I hope this case helps, eventhough this whole thing was brutal, but something good could come out of this. But I doubt it.

I have respect on many things in Arabic cultures, but somethings needs to be changed, even by using some pressure from outside.

I hate women's postion in Arabic countries with passion. Which also almost ruined my life and drove me in depression. Mostly I hate these arranged marriages, where woman can't choose to share her life with someone she loves. Wait, they're not getting many chances to really get to know opposite sex either; first thing is the marriage when you get to be with someone alone first time ( and time before marriage).