uk primeminister attacked

[Snowman]

does the inquesition still round around and get itself new members on TV today Shadow......the KKK do.
I never said americans were ideots.....i said they were irresponsibal as a society. you would be entitled to label us as -"people in UK are terribly old fashioned tea-sucking retards" - if thats the imprestion we give as a country by our actions abroad. however most people here in fact now drink coffee, most people dont even know what the queen looks like let alone the fact we still have one which brings in thousands of pounds via tourists and we werent a bunch of nutters who murder people for what they are born into ala france when it and russia murderd theirs. you would be "Ignorant" as in, not knowing the fuller details. i talk to many americans in texas and across the united states so that i know what "they" are being shown and i dont make an uninformed comment. i wouldnt say that about spain despite my hatred of teh sport because im well aware of peoples disdain for it. however america has done nothing, the president didnt even say sorry and we are talking about acts commited by normal people. we are labled by how we act.
of course terrible things happen...thats why the geneva convention exists as do so many other rules. when britain was thought to have done this we arrested all people concerned, apologised, offerd repreations, we are still investigating and if we have done anything those responsible will go to jail. not simply be sacked or given a couple of months like the USA did. theres a differnce between rough interrogation and torture.
If a nation does something about it and says sorry then they are vindacated....the USA hasnt, they slapped each other on the wrists and said "whoo we got away with that one". if the american people dont want that label then do some thing about it.

Doc....if your being called baby killer it's because your men have been exactly NOT doing there jobs, since when did peacekeeping involve setting dogs on naked masked men and shooting down wedding parties.
tarentino lived.....he got what he did from his real life.....it was only the style that came from other cinima.....art imatates life. then again seven people have been arrested and killed by police for going on sword rampages this year, the most recent ran down a motorway slashing passing cars with his katana. you can by japanese katanas from grattan, a home order catalouge....thankfully they have no tang. in japan it's regular that school kid bikergangs kill each other and teachers with machettes....havent you seen Battle Royale

[DocFrance]

Doc....if your being called baby killer it's because your men have been exactly NOT doing there jobs, since when did peacekeeping involve setting dogs on naked masked men and shooting down wedding parties.

Did you even read my post? Because you obviously don't understand what I'm trying to say.

[Shadow Nexus]

Snowman, yes, USA is a different society. For example, in Europe the idea of death penalty dislikes most people, yet in USA it is widely accepted. War is also treated in a different way, Europeans tend to like less the idea of war than people in USA. Why? Well, the last war fought in USA land was in the mid XIXth century, Europe, on the other hand, has had many wars through the centuries, and this has recorded in the collective subconscious, or in culture. Also, we got in European mentalities philosophies that are not so popular in USA, for example, Immanuel Kant's "For Perpetual Peace" was quoted by Mr. Kagan- that dirty idiot- as an "example of European ingenuity and idealism". May I remind you too, that a large part of Europe is catholic, while in USA, for example, luteranism is the main religious current, and luteranism is more individualist while catholicism is more communal. That is why the economical practices of USA, where capitalism is more free and they lack, for example, public sanitation, is seen as something bad by Europeans while in USA it is vice-versa. Same thing applies for some political ideas, such for example marxism, seen in USA as something ridiculous or dangerous (Remember McArthism) while it is more accepted in Europe (Remember May 1968 in Paris). Of course, this applies for very general ideas, I am not saying "Europeans are this and Americans are that", I am just talking about mentality, but this does not apply to every individual. If you have seen Michael's Moore "Bowling for Columbine", you will see even more evidence of this differences, he does quite an interesting analysis on the views on violence and firearms in USA, and then the same in Canada, a place that has a more european mentality (And Michael Moore does seem to prefer Europe more). As for me, I do confess I prefer European society and mentality to USA one, but I do not like to say this or that is superior, I think both have positive aspects and negative ones. However, I do not even consider my country to fit with European mentality, I think Spain falls more into "latin mentality", we have more in common with Argentina, Cuba or Chile than we do with our neighbor country, France.

However, I don't think you are right to attack them like this. You may prefer one way of life to another, but stating that their culture tolerates the tortures against Irak prisioners is going too far. Yes, it is a different culture, and a different mentality, and even in USA there are different mentalities (New York and Texas, for example) but I don't think you can apply the factor of mentality to every individual, nor determine that USA mentality is barbaric.

About Tarantino, well, his movies are very violent, and he does this as a critique. His idea is to use so much violence to a point it is actually funny, to offer a vanalization of violence to such extreme it actually makes you think how violence infested our society is. Tarantino movies do not reflect reality, Tarantino movies parodize society.

As for Battle Royale, I have not seen it, but Zatoichi - also by Takeshi Kitano- seems to take the same idea as Tarantino. However, Kitano has other movies, like Dolls, that have nothing to do with this concept. For what I know of Battle Royale, it is again- like Zatoichi- a nearly parodical idea of violence.

Finally, I believe the merit about those movies is that they are in fact intelligent movies you can watch without thinking of them as intelligent. Kill Bill can rock you with action, blood, more action, more blood and a nice soundtrack (Except for the pseudo-flamenco theme in the battle against O-Ren), or it can make you smile with it's hidden sarcasm. You cannot -however- watch a Woody Allen movie as if you were watching the last Vin Diesel blockbuster flik.

[Snowman]

Doc, you were saying that by peoples acts of free speech you had done your job, am i right. my point was that when fighting for freedom and rights they shouldnt be gotten at the sacrifice of others freedom.

Shadow think of it like this. Might for Right, not the other way around.

i didnt attack teh US, i stated that they havent done anything about it and that makes it look like they tollerate it...this is the oppinion of iraque and it's them that count at teh moment. we vote leaders to represent everyone and they do it the best that they can......BUSH is representing america....and he chuckles at the thoughts of what were done to theose people.

if that viloence wasnt there tarentino would have nothing to "visualise", instead he would be doing films about taxes etc. many people glamourise gang culture and mob culture because they havent had any experiance of it.....it doesnt mean it isnt there, they just got lucky.

the Oren music and battle was the greatest....ah the diffence between me who has been there and you who hasnt experiance it yet.

woody allen caters to the belif that we can all talk things out....i asure you where i have come from you carnt, it's fists and sticks

[fire_of_avalon]

i didnt attack teh US, i stated that they havent done anything about it and that makes it look like they tollerate it...this is the oppinion of iraque and it's them that count at teh moment. we vote leaders to represent everyone and they do it the best that they can......BUSH is representing america....and he chuckles at the thoughts of what were done to theose people.

I don't like the current president, I didn't vote for him and I probably won't vote for him in the upcoming election, but THAT (in the bold) is an out and out lie. I'll let you in on a bit of a secret, VERY few Americans find anything about this event humorous, at least the Americans I know. I personally don't hang around with President Bush on Sundays, so I can't say I'm 100% certain that he hasn't had a laugh concerning the situation, but I haven't heard him making any jokes about it publically, which means you haven't either.


I'm not asking for you to like Bush, and I'm not asking you to like America. I'm just asking that you don't make generalizations based on ONE bad event, while ignoring anything good the US does.

[Shadow Nexus]

BUSH is representing america

You make it sound like he was actually chosen from a lot of options. It was either Bush or Gore, and Bush stole the elections. He dosen't represent USA, and hell, he does not represent America by any means: He represents a part of it: The part of people who can stand him.

the Oren music and battle was the greatest....ah the diffence between me who has been there and you who hasnt experiance it yet.

·_·

You confuse me. OK, so the O-Ren music was the greatest...um...OK, I don't know how, if you find anything good about that song it's probably because you haven't heard decent flamenco in your life.

And the second part...you say you have had an experience of it. What? Are you Tarantino? Have you been in the battle? How do you know I have not been there? I COULD BE LUCY LIU!!!

[Snowman]

bush never apologised, in fact if you listen or read what he said it clearly states that he thinks it was unfortunate they were cought doing it. by not saying "Im terrible very sorry", he is all but giving the thumbs up. did he sack that wrinkly old turd who said he had the photos and didnt bother investigating....no he didnt, in fact he said what a great man he was, that man himself went and laughed about how hard it is to get rid of him. have ANY of the people who carried out these atrocities really been punished....nope, either a couple of months or a sack. plus the fact bush had teh biggest death row que when he was a governer and it's clear what he thinks and his closest mates.

unfortunatly many americans i speack to online elsewhere dont see a big problem and even deny what happend.

while im sorry you didnt get the leader you want......britain certainly never lets it's leadership do such things without being challenged.

this weasnt one bad thing....it was many men, who knows how many more, it was a mentally ill man who was beaten bloody and died with a sack on his head in the cold, it was a naked human tower 20 men high with US soildgers smiling into the camera, poised at their anus's. it was dogs set on mens peni's. it was a reoccourance of teh shameful behavour in veitnam.

please tell me the GOOD things the USA did recently....when bush crushed teh global talks for enviromental welfare, when the USA was discoverd to consume three times more fuel due to love of SUV's than other countries..i can go on

[Shadow Nexus]

while im sorry you didnt get the leader you want......britain certainly never lets it's leadership do such things without being challenged.

did he go to war..yes, thus he represents america not only in front of teh other countries and politics but to other people. otherwise what would be the point of a president. i havent seen him pulled out of power for being a tyrant?

No, and I haven't seen Blair pulled out of power either, and Blair is quite an asshole. Can I say a??hole or does the damn language censorip thing kick in? Oh, Aznar was kicked through elections, no one misses him.

please tell me the GOOD things the USA did recently....when bush crushed teh global talks for enviromental welfare, when the USA was discoverd to consume three times more fuel due to love of SUV's than other countries..i can go on

THEY LIBERATED AFGHANISTAN FROM A CRUEL SYSTEM and left the country in hands of a bunch of drug dealers AND FREED IRAQ FROM A TYRANT DICTATOR to start an economic invasion and make their multinationals more wealthy while trying to make the invasion look like a liberation war because the WMD thing didn't work.

Because ive been in a real sword fight to teh death a number of times. the music wasnt to represent a dance, it was to represent battle and it did ti well, if youd been in that situation you would have felt how that particular song matched teh emotions of your mind in those situations not to mention teh moviing visuals....do you think i teach sword fighting for a joke..to run around with bendy foam toys?

It looked OK for the scene, with that I can agree, just as that horrible j-pop song in the restaurant matched very well the comical idea Tarantino wished to transmit. But...that is NOT a good flamenco song.

[DocFrance]

Snowman, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop making broad accusations of a culture that you don't seem to fully understand. Before you judge us, try walking a mile in our shoes.

[War Angel]

Before you judge us, try walking a mile in our shoes.

'Cause then, he'd be a mile away... and have your shoes!

[Snowman]

shaodw.....blair is a butt licker......but he wasnt in control of the country who tortured innocent and helpless people.....even so he did officially apologies.

lol you answeard your own question there.....and now bush plans to build a massive american maximum security prisons...aha

that terrible j-pop song was real. that was how they really sing being a real band in japan called teh 5678's. tarentino was in tokyo shopping and heard them in a store playing, he bough their album and invited them over for teh movie....they turned up in what you watched them in and thats how they sing and play...they were the real deal.

Doc...you want me to nip out and torture someone lol, or are you saying we should have children able to get hold of guns while they are growing clinically obease with heros like arnie who, along with teh president are going backwards into the stoneage over rights like gay marrige.
Actually the daily mirrior claimed to have it's own photogrpahs of british parratroopers beating prisoners in the back of a wagon. the press also claimed to have witnesses. immediatly blair apologised out right and offerd reperations to whoever needed them...the problem was that the pictures showed old army kit not sent to iraque....and a truck parked in a british military base just down teh road. regadless of the pictures being faked, british soildgers where immideatly arrested and when discoverd to have been acting outside of orders wer sentanced for prison. i dont like blair...i didnt vote for him or agree with teh war, but the majority of my country did and he represents them as bush does teh USA..very unfortunate.

do you have size 10 and a half

[DocFrance]

'Cause then, he'd be a mile away... and have your shoes!

Thank you, Alfred E. Neuman

[aeris2001x2]

god this went off topic.

look, i think america is one messed up country too and i despise Bush, and with exception of his steortyping, i agree with snowman.

however britain and tony blair r very messed up. hell, every country is messed up. as shadow nexus said, europe is quite diff to usa and we both have positiveand negative aspects to these diff philosophys.

however i dont subscribe to the notion that american ppl are barbaric or stuiped sheep. there just like any other country, there r scum, there are sheep, there r smart ppl, stuiped ppl, nice, nasty etc. my experience of ppl online(which is 90% american) is that at least 3/4 r smart, sensible , civilised. even if they have an opinion diff 2 mine, they can logically explain why.

so snowman dont judge american ppl. yeah, there may be some sick ppl in its society and army, but same for every one. i,m almost 99% sure that britains would have abused iraqi prisoners even though those pics "offically" fake. almost every army that ever existed would have abused prisoners, no matter how "civilised" they are.

[Black Mage]

bush never apologised, in fact if you listen or read what he said it clearly states that he thinks it was unfortunate they were cought doing it. by not saying "Im terrible very sorry", he is all but giving the thumbs up.

Uh.. what?

http://www.abcnews.go.com/wire/Polit...C-RSSFeeds0312


As an American, I'm quite offended by the jibberish, and slander you've spoken about my culture.

It's fine that you don't agree with, or like it, but I don't feel any need for your generalizations.

Last time I checked, I don't go out in the morning and beat Iraqi prisoners before I head off to class.

[Shadow Nexus]

do you have size 10 and a half

Dude! No way! Mine is 22 cm!!!


(What? It's the classical easy joke: I had to do it, or else I'd explode or something ¬¬)



PS: And what do you mean by that question about size 10?