But if you're given a perfectly legal, albeit lethal, order, you have no choice whatsoever.
The Iraq war may well be considered illegal, but American and the UK governments consider it legal. Would I still be able to get out of it if I were a soldier and didn't believe in its legality?
No, because you volunteered your services. When you enlist, you are committing yourself to that oath. If a superior tells you to shoot a child holding an AK-47, you do it.
Of course, you could always desert and face the consequences.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
Do they still shoot deserters in the back as they run away? I think they did in the Civil War.
Nah, it's usually a court-martial followed by a prison sentence and dishonorable discharge.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
Would these rules apply to a soldier who was drafted?Originally Posted by DocFrance
Yes, unfortunately, which is why I am vehemently against a draft.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
[qq]"...AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES..."[/qq]
I was ok with it right up to that part.
Doc, are you allowed to have a public stance on whether you would like more civilians to enlist in some aspect of the military? I'm sort of unsure about that little aspect which may compromise the congruency of my beliefs:
I live in a country with a military. The military is supposed to protect my country, and as such members of the population must serve as the military. In the event the military requires more members of the population to replace men/increase man-power, it is my duty as a citizen to take up arms and do what I can.
As for listening to your superiors, that makes a great deal of sense to me. Nothing makes less sense to me than the image of a private talking back to his commanding officer because s/he (are women allowed in the front lines yet?) doesn't want to kill. By protesting commands you are delaying execution of a formulated plan (I doubt heavily that high-ranking officers spend their times thinking completely idiotic ways to kill American infantry), probably endangering your comrades, and very well could be the sole cause of any problems.
I may be hediously unpatriotic, refuse to vote, or even follow every law to the letter, but I know the difference between idle intellectual-peace-time banter and action time.
Anyway, though I support the military and will not run if conscripted, conscription has ceased, and thus the only reason I'm not running around in Iraq right now is (aside from being Canadian I would think) that I haven't enlisted. So if I support the war does it mean I should enlist (in the case that Canada is not involved in the war, assume I am an American)?
PG - I'm definitely not going to act as a recruiter here, but I'll try to answer your question as best I can. Yes, it is allowable to have a stance on that issue. I ususally don't, because I really don't have a stance on that issue, and here's why. In my opinion, only you yourself can tell you if you want to serve. No one else.
For some people, it's just a job, and those people tend to be pretty miserable in the military. Would you put your life on the line just to pay back your college loans? When I came to the Air Force Academy, the only thing that kept me going through the first year - the toughest year - was that I was getting a free college education out of it. And I was pretty miserable. After that year, though, I realized that service in the military - especially as an officer or senior NCO - was more along the lines of a calling. And quite frankly, I don't really understand it. I don't know why I'd ever want to give up my life for a bunch of people who could care less about my existence. But this is what I do, and it makes me happy for some reason.
Anyway, enlisting (or entering an officer training program) is definitely not a requirement for supporting a war. If you really feel that giving your services is the best way to help out, then go for it, soldier. But if we all went off and enlisted, there wouldn't be much of a country left to defend. I don't know if I'm making a whole lot of sense right now - it's pretty early and I just woke up. Assuming that you're an American considering enlistment, I'm certainly not going to push you one way or the other - it's your life, and your decision.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
As for listening to your superiors, that makes a great deal of sense to me. Nothing makes less sense to me than the image of a private talking back to his commanding officer because s/he (are women allowed in the front lines yet?) doesn't want to kill. By protesting commands you are delaying execution of a formulated plan (I doubt heavily that high-ranking officers spend their times thinking completely idiotic ways to kill American infantry), probably endangering your comrades, and very well could be the sole cause of any problems.
I may be hediously unpatriotic, refuse to vote, or even follow every law to the letter, but I know the difference between idle intellectual-peace-time banter and action time. - PG.
It depends. If we're talking about something that I consider just and right, say WW2, then I'd volunteer, do my job and try my hardest. I'd be a lot less likely to question orders if I believed in the war.
Saying that, COs can still get things wrong. WW1 seems to me to be a case of pretty much all the commanders messing up. British soldiers were told to slowly jog over No Man's Land (I think the idea was behind it was to avoid tiring out soldiers before they got to the German lines... the only problem being that most of them were dead by then). I think it's absurd not to question orders like that.
I should think that abolishing that requirement for drafted soldiers would more or less eliminate that problem. That would probably bring with it its own Pandora's Box of issues as well, though.
Whatever happened to conscientious objectors anyway?
http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthread.php?t=46504
I have concluded that most politicians suck and do not deserve to receive anyone's votes.
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