The mystery of Sephiroth (Big Spoilers)

[Mordred]

Sephiroth, my favorite game character, the best villain ever (in my mind) and part of one crazy story line.

Well I was talking to one of my friends and he said "I was thinking maybe the Advent Children are the 100% Sephiroth clones."

Thats what spurred this thread for me. Being a huge fan of the game(VII, duh), and haveing beat it 15 times, I still have my questions and maybe you can help sort it out.

Heres what I am asking (In huge sotry like paragraph form):

The Sephiroth you fight with in the Nibleheim story time part, that fights the dragon, (you show up as Cloud but we all know it was Zack, cuz Cloud was motion sick) was the real Sephiroth right?

OK well assuming that is correct^^^^ Sephiroth questions who he is when you get into the mako reactor where Jenova is stored. Cloud barges in to stop him but Sephiroth just walks by, Cloud chases him, Sephiroth stabs him, Cloud miraculously makes a comeback and throws Sephiroth off the bridge "killing" him. Correct so far?
(This is where I get a little lost)
Ok so the Sephiroth you chase through the entire game is just a clone of the real Sephiroth, right?

The Sephiroth that you hand the bleck materia to that is sealed up in a mako bubble is the real Sephiroth, since he fell in mako, he isnt essentially dead.

Is that right?

Well then my big question is....which Sephiroth do you fight at the end of the game, Sephiroth or Clone Sephiroth.

I consulted my Uncle on this and he said that you fight the clone at the end, explaining why it was fairly easy, and that the real Sephiroth would have been much stronger.

If that is correct then what ever happened to the sephiroth that is sealed in the mako bubble?

Well thank you for your time.

P.S. If you have answers to my questions, leave a reply..Mucho aprreciated

[GaV]

I always thought the sephi you chased was infact jenova, because you fight a form of jenova every time you meet the figure. You must also remember the sephi clones were not his exact form, but just contained jenova cells and were made in the same way.

[Mordred]

Yes but hojo is always rambling about "The perfect clone" and so are the other messed up clones, plus those are just pieces of jenova he carried around, he was a little messed in the head, be it real him or not

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

The "Sephiroth" whom Cloud chases to the Whirlwind Maze is neither the real Sephiroth nor a clone. It's actually Jenova, who escaped from Shin-Ra Tower, taking on Sephiroth's appearance. The Jenova-BIRTH and Jenova-LIFE battles occur when it leaves pieces of its body behind, and the party finally fights it in earnest in the Whirlwind Maze. Notice that, after the Jenova-DEATH battle, the fake Sephiroth is no more.

The real Sephiroth is fought at the end of the game. The reason he is so weak during his final duel with Cloud is that, as the story reveals, Cloud had always been the stronger of the two (which is why he had been able to "kill" Sephiroth back at Mt. Nibel). The only thing that made Sephiroth seem stronger was Cloud's own insecurities.

[Mordred]

THAT WAS JENOVA, HOW THE H*LL DID I MISS THAT


I guess i just disagree with the story because I think Sephiroth should have easily been able to eliminate cloud, because he was the ultimate soldier

Well even if your clearing this up for me, what are your predictions for Advent Children?

[Sefie1999AD]

Originally posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi
The reason he is so weak during his final duel with Cloud is that, as the story reveals, Cloud had always been the stronger of the two (which is why he had been able to "kill" Sephiroth back at Mt. Nibel). The only thing that made Sephiroth seem stronger was Cloud's own insecurities.

Or the reason could be that the battle takes place inside Cloud's mind, and there Cloud proves that inside his own mind, his will is way stronger than Sephiroth's, and that he's the one who's in control of his own mind.

[Flying Mullet]

Originally posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi
The "Sephiroth" whom Cloud chases to the Whirlwind Maze is neither the real Sephiroth nor a clone. It's actually Jenova, who escaped from Shin-Ra Tower, taking on Sephiroth's appearance. The Jenova-BIRTH and Jenova-LIFE battles occur when it leaves pieces of its body behind, and the party finally fights it in earnest in the Whirlwind Maze. Notice that, after the Jenova-DEATH battle, the fake Sephiroth is no more.

The real Sephiroth is fought at the end of the game. The reason he is so weak during his final duel with Cloud is that, as the story reveals, Cloud had always been the stronger of the two (which is why he had been able to "kill" Sephiroth back at Mt. Nibel). The only thing that made Sephiroth seem stronger was Cloud's own insecurities.

So if up through the Whirlwind Maze the party is actually chasing Jenvoa, where does Sephiroth come into play, i.e. where was he hanging out until after the Whirlwind Maze?

[Mordred]

Yeah I thought the real sephiroth was in that mako bubble the whole time, I wasnt talking about the lifestream battle im talking baout the actual whole damn battle, he should have been blisteringly hard


P.S. Why isnt my sig working? It works everywhere else i try

[Sefie1999AD]

Originally posted by Flying Mullet
So if up through the Whirlwind Maze the party is actually chasing Jenvoa, where does Sephiroth come into play, i.e. where was he hanging out until after the Whirlwind Maze?

After Sephiroth fell into the pit in Nibelheim five years prior to the game, I think he drifted in the Lifestream until he reached the Northern Crater where the Reunion started to take place.

[GaV]

sephiroth did not die and did infact end up in the 'promised land'

[Big D]

Originally posted by Kawaii Ryûkishi
The "Sephiroth" whom Cloud chases to the Whirlwind Maze is neither the real Sephiroth nor a clone. It's actually Jenova, who escaped from Shin-Ra Tower, taking on Sephiroth's appearance. The Jenova-BIRTH and Jenova-LIFE battles occur when it leaves pieces of its body behind, and the party finally fights it in earnest in the Whirlwind Maze. Notice that, after the Jenova-DEATH battle, the fake Sephiroth is no more.

I've still not seen an adequate explanation for why Jenova would put on such an act. There's no question that Jenova's body is in fact what you're chasing, but to me it's clear that Sephiroth's mind is involved somehow. It'd make no sense for Jenova to boast about Sephiroth becoming a 'traveller of the lifestream' and being able to diffuse his will through it, gaining knowledge. It seems clear to me that those were Sephiroth's words, and Jenova's headless carcass merely provided a kind of 'conduit' for them.

The real Sephiroth is fought at the end of the game. The reason he is so weak during his final duel with Cloud is that, as the story reveals, Cloud had always been the stronger of the two (which is why he had been able to "kill" Sephiroth back at Mt. Nibel). The only thing that made Sephiroth seem stronger was Cloud's own insecurities.

Not really. Sephiroth was a military general, a war hero and the 'greatest soldier in the world'. He was far stronger than Cloud, or anyone else for that matter. Cloud was only able to throw him into the Nibel Reactor because Sephiroth was already wounded, and because Cloud was driven by rage, love, and other emotions Sephiroth just couldn't comprehend. He was empowered, however briefly, by the sense of frustration and injustice at everything he'd lost.

At the very end of the game, Sephiroth has alredy been defeated twice; Jenova he's reduced to his original human form. You don't die and disintegrate twice without losing a bit of strength. Once again, Cloud also had the advantage of years of pain to fuel the fires of his vengeance.

[The Man]

I was under the impression that Cloud had been rejected from SOLDIER for most of my first trip through FFVII, but it appears that I incorrectly drew that conclusion; it's more likely that he was too afraid even to apply, which appears to be a large part of the reason he distorts his past story in his own mind.

I was about to say that being imprisoned in materia for five years wouldn't do wonders for Sephiroth's strength, but who knows what kind of magical properties it has.

[zacks_clone]

I thought he was rejected from SOLDIER,and simply got the position of a lonely guard.Zack became friends with him during training or whatever...

I always thought that the sephiroth cloud fought at the VERY end was simply in his mind.The strong controll over him showed itself to be Sephiroth.All his problumes were linked to Sephiroth.The more he learned about himself,and the less hold Sephiroth had,the more this image in his mind weakened.In the end, Cloud was stronger then this Image, and he struck it down.

[The Man]

Originally posted by zacks_clone
I thought he was rejected from SOLDIER,and simply got the position of a lonely guard.

I don't think the game ever decisively said whether Cloud was rejected or never had the courage to apply, but judging from what we know about his personality at the time, I'd say the latter was more likely. He was certainly strong enough to throw Sephiroth down into the Lifestream in a one-on-one battle, and that's not exactly something you'd expect of a reject from SOLDIER.

[Big D]

Cloud says he "never made it as a member of SOLDIER", which is, as you say, ambiguous. However, he certainly wasn't stronger or a better fighter than Sephiroth. He overpowered a wounded and off-guard and somewhat mad Sephiroth, who was limping with a wound, and who's just beheaded the inhuman monster he considered his mother. He was carrying her head in one hand, and impaled Cloud's shoulder one-handed and without even looking where he was aiming. Very poor use of his talents, probably a bit of over-confidence there too. He was in a state of denial when Cloud actually levered him up and over the side of the pipe.

"Heh.... pipe!"