"Innovative" Changes

[Dignified Pauper]

With all these new "innovative" changes, do you think Square is taking a right step. All Final Fantasies followed a specific format. Now, they are breaking away from that format.

With FFXI we said good-bye to single-player fun and hello online world. That's great, but it shouldn't be part of the FF series, or if it should, change it's name. It's like making Final Fantasy Tactics turn into Final Fantasy 8. Final Fantasy XI should have been named FF: Online.

Now with 12, we're saying goodbye to the classic and loved Random Encounters. Another step away from the FF Formula.

The story-lines have been growing much more out there and far-fetched. 4 and 6 were argueably the best story-lines in the FF-series. 7 Was the last decent story. 8 took a turn for the worst. 9 was good because of 8's flop, but was good alone in its own right. 10 was different and took a step away from classic experience system and leveling, but i didn't like the sphere grid much.

Final Fantasy had a formula, and now that formula is being taken and changed too far to be counted. The games are no longer following the classic FF Formula, and I honestly believe that XII OR XIII will be the last of the FF series.

[DJZen]

FFII wasn't like other FF games! It shouldn't be called Final Fantasy! Square shouldn't take creative liberties or experiment with game styles! I only liked these few games, Square should make more games like those 'cause I said so! I hate new school Square games, their old school games like FFVII and VIII are so much better! I'm starting a petition! MQ was a terrible game because everyone else says so and 'cause the characters aren't like Robert Smith! I want more FMVs and less gameplay! No wait.... I mean.... I hate FMVs! I want more gameplay and less cinemas! If Square changes anything about FFXIII I'll never play another video game ever again! I'm telling my mom.....

[Cz]

What's wrong with criticising Square's decisions? While I disagree with Indelacio's point about storylines, I do think that stepping too far away from the formula is a bad idea.

Don't think I'll miss the random battles, though.

[aeris2001x2]

final fantasy can be anything square wants it 2 be. i dont care what they change, i only ask one thing...that its GOOD. which is why i will buy an ff even if its a complete sci-fi setting as long as its good, BUT i wont buy a traditional ff if its as bad as ffII.

so stop complaining ppl. at the end of the day if you dont like it, go back to ffVI.

[Dignified Pauper]

FFII was innovative in the way that they realized it was bad and went back to the FF system in III with slight modifications. Granted, i'm not saying gameplay should be exactly alike, but there is a certain model that the classic FF criteria follows, and to stray from that model is to make a game completely unlike Final Fantasy. Like i said, they might as well just have called FFT FF8, because essentially, that is what is starting to happen with drastic changes.

[NashX]

Games like FF2 and FF11, and recently FFX-2, are the experimentals. This is Square trying to find higher ground for its series. FF Tactics, FF:CC, FF:TA, all these are the results of Square's furtive attempts at finding a new area to take the FF series. We all know they cannot go on forever. Might as well invest for the future now. FFXI - the online experiment. FFX-2 - the sequel experiment. FFII - the crap that we will ignore, and was not innovative, as Indelacio stated, but pivotal none the less. Nowadays we rejoice when we see a traditional FF game, and we frown upon the crud that Square's other projects leave in our game shops. But how long is this going to be the case?

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

FFII was innovative in the way that they realized it was bad and went back to the FF system in III with slight modifications.

Just like how they brought back the job system in FFV after the FFII-like circumstantial party members of FFIV.

Just like how they went back to having monsters yield money in FFIX after the salary system in FFVIII. (In fact, all the departures FFVIII made and all the efforts Square made to make FFIX as traditional as possible are too many to list here.)

Just like how they went back to the ATB and traditional experience systems in FFX-2 after the CTB and sphere grid systems in FFX.

Just like how they went back to a single-player game in FFXII after the multiplayer game in FFXI.

Just like how they could easily bring back random encounters in FFXIII.

Et cetera. You're overreacting to changes and innovations that the series would suffocate without.

[Cz]

But would it? The Mario series has been through numerous installments with very few changes, and remained as popular as ever. Granted, it's a whole different genre, but RPG's have a longer lifespan than platformers. I don't think that FF would suffocate without those changes. I honestly wouldn't care had the ATB or salary system never been introduced, and I'm not really bothered that I can't play FFXI right now.

*Prepares to be crushed*

[Dignified Pauper]

I applaud you.

My reasoning for this arguement is the entire title. Final Fantasy denotes a formula that we've all come to establish and know, and each game is different, but that formula remains basic and unchanged. When you change that formula, you might as well change the title.

It's like rewriting Newton's Law to be similar to Darwin's Theory and still slapping Newton's Law on it. I like that they named FFT what they did, FFXI should have been FF:Online, FFXII should become FFXI, just my opinion. But FFXII is still straying too far from the formula.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

But would it? The Mario series has been through numerous installments with very few changes, and remained as popular as ever.

Super Mario Bros. followed a completely different formula from Mario Bros. Super Mario World 2 followed a completely different formula from SMB, SMB2, SMB3, and Super Mario World. Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine followed a completely different formula from SMW2. The changes have not only been important, altering the entire focus and execution of the games, but again, too numerous to list.

[TasteyPies]

But FFXII is still straying too far from the formula.

*trying to help*
This is Tasteys FF Formula

Tastey's must have list for good RPGs V 2.0

Tastey Qualifications

A.world map (Walkable, drivable)
B.Visitable towns with... (talkitive people, secret items, activatable events)
C.Shops with... (weapons, armor and items)
D.Some good whoop arse (Turn based or active single person)
E. Noble main charicter (People who are cool and collective)
F. Reasonable Price

Tastey Rating
(Ratings come from how many of the above are included)

1.um...so what is this crap?
2.eh....
3.ok
4.Good
5.Great!
6.THIS is an FF MASTERPIECE!

Examples
What pies rating system is before he buys a game ..
Game has A,B,C and D therefore it has 4 qualifications and is *4.Good*
Game has C and D therefore it has 2 qualifications and is *3. ok*
Game has C therefore it has 1 qualification and isn't verry good at all, so i shrug it off with an *1. um... so what is this crap?*

Games
FFI had
A,B,C,D,E and F (6. MASTERPIECE!)

FFIV had
A,B,C,D,E and F (6. MASTERPIECE!)

FFVII had (havn't played in a while correct me if wrong)
A,B,C,D,E and F (6 MASTERPIECE!)

FFVIII had
A,B,D,E and F (5. Great!)

FFX had
B,C,D and F (4. Good)

FFX-2 had
B and F (2. eh...)

FFXI Had
....I dunno it costs too much to play! therefore it gets a (3. ok)

KH had
B,D, E and F (4. Good)

You can see how They have been changing so much they have gotten rid of things that make FF something that we know and love..i mean...why get rid of having a cool main charicter? (ffx) why get rid of the walkable world map? (ffx, ffx-2, KH) WHY get rid of just BUYING weapons and armor? (ffviii)

Tastey's must have list for good RPGs is copywrite of Tasteyco. and hereby property of Tasteyco.
Needed license of permision of referance granted to those who send TasteyCo. lots of cash
TasteyCo. Copywrited to Tastey 2004-Eternity

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

FFI had
A,B,C,D,E and F (6. MASTERPIECE!)

FFI did not have a noble main character. FFI had no main character at all.

FFX-2 had
B and F (2. eh...)

FFX-2 had shops with armor and items.

[TasteyPies]

FFI did not have a noble main character. FFI had no main character at all..

The main charicters were coolheaded, you never heard them say anything to make them look stupid..in fact you never heard them say anything at all.

FFX-2 had shops with armor and items.

Yes but it did NOT have weapons

[DJZen]

Let me break it down. No matter what Square does they catch heat. No one's content to just appreciate what each game has to offer. If they stray too far from the "original formula" (which, btw, meant turn based battles, ineffective shots, MP per spell level, personality lacking characters and completely redundant scenarios) people whine about how "it's not FF any more". I know how it feels because I was one of those people, but then I finally gave FFVIII a shot and realized my big mistake; if Square just cranks out the same game over and over, they might as well just not make more FF games. Seriously, just look at the Mega Man series. The ORIGINAL Mega Man series. Not Battle Network, not X, not Legends, the original Mega Man series (which has not seen a new game since 1997, I might add). No single game series in the history of gaming has recieved as much flak for having sequels that are too much like their predecessors. In fact, even with the addition of the slide technique, the bolt system and the aide of Rush, Mega Man 8 still plays quite a bit like Mega Man 1. Meanwhile, Final Fantasy isn't afraid to take risks. Compare FFI to FFVIII. Is there a lot that's different? Well, there's salary, junctioning, triple triad, ATB, limit breaks, no job system, fixed weapons for characters, GFs (summoning), chocobo, drawing.... the list goes on. But is anything the same? The combat should feel very familiar, as should simply navigating the world map, most of the spells are exactly the same, the control scheme is almost untouched (now you can challenge people to play cards.... that's pretty much the only difference....), the aims of the main villian seem the same, and there's only a few new status effects. All in all, it's different yet the same. As far as everyone's gripe with FFXII, well, let's just say I find it interesting that people can be so opinionated about a game that hasn't even been released yet.

[Cz]

Meh. I guess most people's real problem with the series changing too much is that some of these changes might soon become the norm, and we'd end up with a bunch of X-2 clones.

I think that the only reason I'm opposed to too much change at the moment is that the standard formula hasn't gotten old for me, yet. I still enjoy replaying titles from the series, even if it means repeating battle systems or story elements. Adding a new weapon upgrade system or salary system doesn't increase lifespan of a series. The only changes that I want to see are the battle system, world map, and storyline.

Super Mario Bros. followed a completely different formula from Mario Bros. Super Mario World 2 followed a completely different formula from SMB, SMB2, SMB3, and Super Mario World. Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine followed a completely different formula from SMW2. The changes have not only been important, altering the entire focus and execution of the games, but again, too numerous to list.

Really? I'm not the biggest Mario fan, but I seem to remember the only major changes being the addition of new abilities, and creating new levels. I believe that the series could have done pretty well even without these changes.

How is Final Fantasy any different? Every edition, they update the battle system and give us a new world to explore. In fact, FF can vary it's story, too. Which is something that Mario has rarely done (Let Bowser keep Peach, for chrissakes!). Change is good, but changing the fundamental formula of a series isn't. I have no problems with FFXII, and I think it's shaping up rather well. I simply think that straying too far from the formula would be a mistake.