Athletes and Non-Athletes

[Dingo Jellybean]

Okay, what defines an athlete?

Here's who I DON'T think are athletes:

Racecar drivers, golfers, bowlers, poker players, etc. They're hobbyists, not athletes. They may play in a sport, but just because people sweat doesn't make them athletes. A sport is defined as a recreation, or pasttime. Something that inspires competition...but to call any one of these people athletes is a total slap in the face to real athletes who actually digress in extreme physical exertion. Athletes don't necesarrily need an "athlete's" body, but these "sports" aren't necesarrily going to give you a better body...and no sane doctor is going to recommend you play golf or drive cars to lose weight.

Okay, which sport do you think has the best athletes?

Personally, I like to say basketball...but tennis gets my nod. Why? Because it's 90 degrees outside and often men's tennis matches can go on for hours. They have to endur a lot of heat and stress to still go over 120 mph on their serve late in the last sets. Females included. In football you only play on the field, on most occassions, for just 30 minutes or so...because defense and offense and special teams alternate. In basketball, you have an indoor AC. In baseball, well, there's really not a lot going on. In hockey, it's much easier to skate for an hour than it is to run for an hour. Wrestling would get my nod, amateur that is, if only the matches didn't last like 30 seconds. Boxing might get my nod...but often it's really not about endurance as much as it is trying to knock the other guy out.

So yep, agree or disagree.

[Del Murder]

I agree with some things you have said. I don't think calling a bowler an athlete is a slap in the face to anyone, but they certainly don't produce the best physical specimens in the world today. You don't have to be in good shape to play a sport, you just have to be good at it.

As for which sport requires the best physical condition, basketball and tennis are up there but I'm going to have to go with boxing. It basically requires you to be good in every physical aspect there is. It's not about knocking the other guy out anymore, in title matches this rarely happens these days. If you can't last 12 rounds you won't make it.

[-N-]

Oh dear, it warrants its own thread now?

I agree with men's tennis as having some of the most fit people, though.

[Kirobaito]

I agree with every word up there, Dingo. I think this is the first time we have agreed with each other 100 percent. *slaps Dingo in the face with a rubber ducky*

[RSL]

You hurt my feelings.

[Leeza]

<i>and no sane doctor is going to recommend you play golf or drive cars to lose weight.</i> - Dingo

I don't know about driving cars, but walking a three and a half mile golf course and driving balls is a definite workout and I'm sure it is doctor recommended. (No, not if you drive a cart around.) It also requires a lot of skill if you plan on getting in at anywhere near Par. Not me though as I usually end up with a score of over 120, but that just means that I get more of a workout.

[Mr. Graves]

Athletes are masters of a sport that requires a lot of movement.

Poker players and NASCAR drivers are excluded.

[RSL]

<b>ath·lete ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.</b>

This is the definition of an athlete from dictionary.com.

A nascar driver is strapped tight inside a racecar for 3-4 hours typically. Once the race starts, there are far fewer breaks for them than say a football player or a baseball player. 15 second pit stops and caution periods are the only time the racer gets a chance to take a "breather". A football player usually plays only offense or defense and is on the field for roughly half the game. Lets say an hour and a half. And they aren't constantly playing. They are often standing in a huddle. And don't get me started on baseball. Other than the pitcher, I'd say that these guys are far less athletes than a racecar driver. Sitting on the bench waiting to bat, or standing in the outfield waiting for a ball to come your way.

Okay, I know you want to say that a racecar driver just sits in a car and steers. There is more to it than that. First of all, it is typically much hotter inside the car than outside. On 80 degree plus days it is usually well over 100 degrees in the car. They are wearing fireproof suits, gloves, and a helmet. They get a little air circulation into the helmet, that's about it. They also have to deal with high g forces for 3 plus hours. Studies have been done that show that the nascar drivers heart rate is highly elevated while they are in the race.

[qq=Dingo Jellybean]and no sane doctor is going to recommend you play golf or drive cars to lose weight.[/qq]

While I agree that no sane doctor would recommend racing for weight loss, it is a FACT that racers typically lose 5 to 10 pounds in a SINGLE race. They have to continually be reminded to tighten their seat belts throughout the race because of this.

I think that a racecar drive is an athlete. Based on the definition that I found, a racecar driver has to possess strength and definitely endurance to survive a 3 hour race. Most full time nascar drivers have an extensive work-out program to prepare for the race.

And yes I know that I'm a crappy debater.

EDIT: A few articles to read, if you want.
<a href="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4243400/">Here.</a>
<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2001-08-08-heat.htm">Here.</a>
<a href="http://www.augustachronicle.com/stories/062404/ins_fit.shtml">And here.</a>

[muchacho]

im gonna say football(US) cause its not a contact sports, its a collision sport that only the best athletes can handle. i know your saying "but most players only play one side of the ball(ie offense/defense), and get breathers after every play" but its alot more than that. the breaks are just long enough so that you just barely get your breath(if your lucky) and on the very next play your outta breath again. not to mention your running as fast as you can with 20 pounds of weights on you. and for the big guys(linemen) your muscles get worn down halfway through the game, and its hard to push other 200 - 300 pounds around on every play.

tennis, basketball and boxing/wrestling get my hat off to them too.

[escobert]

As a football player who had to play both offense and defense every game and played special teams I say football. I was runing full spead every play since I played reciver free saftey and special teams. When it's a hot saturday afternoon and you have all of those pads on, you get tired fast.

[eestlinc]

i still say the greatest athlete alive is Lance Armstrong

[m4tt]

Saying a golfer is not an athlete is bulltrout. Sure the average golfers may not be. I know I'm not. But Tiger Woods is an athlete for sure. Arnold Palmer is an athlete. I'd like to see the average man his age hitting the ball the way he does.

[RSL]

Which sport do I think has the greatest athletes?

I'd say it's a toss up between soccer and tennis.

[Yamaneko]

i still say the greatest athlete alive is Lance Armstrong

[Dingo Jellybean]

Saying a golfer is not an athlete is bulltrout. Sure the average golfers may not be. I know I'm not. But Tiger Woods is an athlete for sure. Arnold Palmer is an athlete. I'd like to see the average man his age hitting the ball the way he does.

Like I said, just because you sweat doesn't mean you're an athlete.

If you're going to compare Tiger Woods and Jack Nickalus to Michael Jordan in terms of achievement, fine...but to compare them to athletes is like comparing a single grape to a fruit basket...there's no comparison.

Why I don't think golfers are athletes is for the very reason why I don't consider Poker players athletes. The average total time spent swinging on a golf course during an 18-hole round is about a little more than half a minute.

How people see golfers as athletes is beyond me, just because they have good aim doesn't make them athletes. Heck, you might as well say people who throw darts are athletes.

But golfers consistently upgrade their equipment. In the PGA tour, THERE IS NO EQUIPMENT STANDARD. That is, not everyone uses the same quality of equipment. There are drivers and irons that are designed to make the ball travel farther, as well as balls designed to travel farther. Not everyone is on an even playing field...and because technology can influence the game significantly, this is where the logic of a golfer as an athlete fails.

ath·lete ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thlt)
n.

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

This is the definition of an athlete from dictionary.com.

A nascar driver is strapped tight inside a racecar for 3-4 hours typically. Once the race starts, there are far fewer breaks for them than say a football player or a baseball player. 15 second pit stops and caution periods are the only time the racer gets a chance to take a "breather". A football player usually plays only offense or defense and is on the field for roughly half the game. Lets say an hour and a half. And they aren't constantly playing. They are often standing in a huddle. And don't get me started on baseball. Other than the pitcher, I'd say that these guys are far less athletes than a racecar driver. Sitting on the bench waiting to bat, or standing in the outfield waiting for a ball to come your way.

Okay, I know you want to say that a racecar driver just sits in a car and steers. There is more to it than that. First of all, it is typically much hotter inside the car than outside. On 80 degree plus days it is usually well over 100 degrees in the car. They are wearing fireproof suits, gloves, and a helmet. They get a little air circulation into the helmet, that's about it. They also have to deal with high g forces for 3 plus hours. Studies have been done that show that the nascar drivers heart rate is highly elevated while they are in the race.

Originally Posted by Dingo Jellybean:
and no sane doctor is going to recommend you play golf or drive cars to lose weight.



While I agree that no sane doctor would recommend racing for weight loss, it is a FACT that racers typically lose 5 to 10 pounds in a SINGLE race. They have to continually be reminded to tighten their seat belts throughout the race because of this.

I think that a racecar drive is an athlete. Based on the definition that I found, a racecar driver has to possess strength and definitely endurance to survive a 3 hour race. Most full time nascar drivers have an extensive work-out program to prepare for the race.

And yes I know that I'm a crappy debater.

I know that it takes a lot of skill to beat other drivers, that's not what I'm debating. Athletes do need skill, but just because you have skill in a particular area doesn't warrant Jeff Gordan as the athlete of Michael Jordan's caliber.

You also say drivers lose 5-10 lbs. in a single race, but that's only due to heat. You can draw that same argument for people in a sauna. But by your definition of an athlete, with respect to a driver, you might as well say astronauts are athletes too because they have to go through extensive(if not more rigorous) work out programs as well.

You also state that drivers have to battle g forces for 3 hours, not true. G forces only occur during acceleration, and most tracks are oval and not circular, so these g forces occur only during start and during turns at each ends of the oval(because of centripital acceleration). But it's the car that does the majority of the work, not the driver. This is why I set the line between NASCAR drivers and athletes; the majority of the task done is not performed by anything biological. Not only that, NASCAR drivers consistently have cars upgraded to certain standards, such as softer and more durable tires, and better fuel efficiency. Other athletes can only improve their performance if they maintain an endurance workout and such. Because technology has such an important role on the performance of the driver, I do not consider them athletes when technology has more of an impact than the driver, much like golf.

You're probably going by the dictionary definition and sticking with it, which is fine. But the word "athlete" is much more connotative than literal. You would never hear the average person talk of great athletes mention golfers or racecar drivers.

So in summary, golfers and drivers are not athletes because their performance is enhanced my technology. If you gave Jack Nickalus a set of wooden clubs, he would NEVER have won 18 majors and have 19 2nd place finishes. Much like giving Jeff Gordon a Ford Mustang, he would have never won all those races driving an inferior car like that. On the other hand, sports like MLB, NBA, etc. have equipment standards. And performance isn't enhanced with technology, but with being physically better than your opponent.