Why take a Red Mage?

[Del Murder]

From now on let's not call eachother wrong and just say why we disagree. Because basically that's all you are doing. Example:

'Ninja can learn Ice3.'
That is wrong. Feel free to correct someone in a polite fashion.

'Ice3 on a Red Wizard is useless.'
This is an opinion. Calling it wrong is the same thing as saying you disagree. Please use this type of phrasing in the future. Feel free to disagree and say who you do, of course, in a poilte and courteous fashion.

Also, don't double post.

[Black Mage FF1]

'Ice3 on a Red Wizard is useless.'
This is an opinion. Calling it wrong is the same thing as saying you disagree. Please use this type of phrasing in the future. Feel free to disagree and say who you do, of course.

Also, don't double post.

Umm him saying the "seasond players" dont use Rm is not an opinion. The thing with ICE3, ok yeah that is an opinion. But MY opinion is that it is a good spell. Just as usefull as Nuke.

Sorry for the double post, it was an accident.

[Del Murder]

That type of remark can be taken two ways. True, it can be observed as being told what you want, but on the other hand it could just be his opinion of what he thinks seasoned players want. So you can respond with:

'You are TELLING us what we want. That is NOT an opinion.'

'I disagree. I am a veteran player and I play the games because...'

Use your judgement on which is the better response.

Also, I fixed your double post for you so don't worry about it.

[Black Mage FF1]

Alright I will try harder to be more polite.
Thanks for fixing it, that is a LARGE post. O_o

[Martyr]

BTW any party is better without a thief. Fi/Fi/Fi/Rm > Fi/Fi/Fi/Th. Thieves suck. Rm = better.

Lets see.

Throughout half the game the Rm does more damage then the Thief.
The Rm actually has magic.
The Rm has more Hp then the Thief
The Rm Mage as better defense

After Class change
The Ninja is still weaker until you get the Katana. Then he gets A LITTLE stronger then the Rm.
The Ninja has magic but the Rm still has more.
The Ninja gets some better armor. But so what? He gets it so late that it doesnt even matter.

Your "which party is better" contrast is inadequate because the RM is a wizard. Clearly, a party with magic capabilities is better.

You have to ask:
F/?/WM/BM
Is it better to have an intermediary character that can assist everybody in their efforts, or is it better to have a Thief that can run away (Instead of fight, when things are getting nasty), and can be a better fighter later on in the game.

Also, the Ninja can get the Ice Shield and Flame Armor before class change (That is, those items are available and immediately accessible as soon as class change takes pace). Both him and the RW can carry the defense, and by the time the RW can carry the Sun Sword (Which the Ninja can also use), you may as well have the Katana as well.

The way I see it, the RM is superior before class change. That's because it's better to prepare for fighting instead of preparing to run away. But the Ninja is better afterward. Because, despite the fact that it's afterward, the Ninja is stronger on the attack and defense. And the defense is stronger soon, like, the moment class change takes place.

After that, all RM has on the Ninja is Life, Exit, and Ice3, Fire3, and Lit3.

So, in a party with two mages, the RM becomes less useful. Most of the time, the Ninja and RW are washed out simply because of magic items and the fact that a Fighter is just too good.

Hey! There's the answer. The RW simply answers for magic if you want it. That means that it's reaching maximum usefulness in a party with 3 fighters, but isn't very important in a party with 2 white mages (Or something like that)

I think, Black Mage FF1, that you like the RM so much because you seem to loathe BMs. I can see how Ice3 without a black mage would seem infinitely better than Fast and lv. 3 black magic (Which can be found in items anyway).

Note: Ninja, of course, can still run like Hell when he has to. That and fight and assist!

But I felt I had to respond again. Even though it's getting to be closing time. I just didn't like the way you compared the two with 3 fighters instead of adding variety to the parties in consideration.

[Black Mage FF1]

Your "which party is better" contrast is inadequate because the RM is a wizard. Clearly, a party with magic capabilities is better.

You have to ask:
F/?/WM/BM
Is it better to have an intermediary character that can assist everybody in their efforts, or is it better to have a Thief that can run away (Instead of fight, when things are getting nasty), and can be a better fighter later on in the game.

Well you see, I rather have the Red Mage. I mean, a character who can cast white and black magic, has good attack and defense is more important to me then a little wuss who can run. Running isnt really a big deal to me. I rarely have a 4 person party fail to run when I need to. But that is just me.

After that, all RM has on the Ninja is Life, Exit, and Ice3, Fire3, and Lit3.

Shouldnt forget Cure1-3 and he has more magic points. The Red Mage gets a helluva lot more MP. Which IMO makes him more usefull.

I think, Black Mage FF1, that you like the RM so much because you seem to loathe BMs. I can see how Ice3 without a black mage would seem infinitely better than Fast and lv. 3 black magic (Which can be found in items anyway).

Yeah, you got that right. Its not really that I hate the thieves. Its just that I hate the Bm. Which is why I take a Rm. No point in taking the Bm when you have a Rm. Thats why I like to use Fi/Th/BB/Rm. After completing this game many times I found the Wm/Bm to be useless to me. I found that 1 red mage works just as well. Thats why I like him so much. What you should do is give the Rm another chance. Try a Fi/Th/BB/Rm party or a Fi/Fi/Rm/Wm or a Fi/Fi/Fi/Rm. You can really see the Rm potential in those parties.

[UltimateSpamGrover]

Fire 3 O_O ooh, Cure 2 O_O ooh , shall I continue?

[BBman108]

I love the Red Mage, in my opinion there is no class cooler. Whoever says they are useless in the later game has either never used one or has used one poorly. Having a Red Mage leves your other mages avaliable (assuming you have other mages) to use their more powerful spells whil he uses the nesscary fast or alit spell. Not to mention the sword skills just as powerful as the Thief/Ninja and he has decent armor to boot.

[TasteyPies]

I love the Red Mage, in my opinion there is no class cooler. Whoever says they are useless in the later game has either never used one or has used one poorly. Having a Red Mage leves your other mages avaliable (assuming you have other mages) to use their more powerful spells whil he uses the nesscary fast or alit spell. Not to mention the sword skills just as powerful as the Thief/Ninja and he has decent armor to boot.

The problem with redmage is....

they have ok abilities but can only use 1 at a time. This means you have to make sure they are doing the right job at the right time....this is a total bummer when you could just have a white mage heal, black mage nuke, fighter chop things up, and thief run like heck. You talk about being....ok...in many areas as being a strongpoint. you dont NEED a multirole charicter because you can only do 1 thing a turn and you want that thing your doing to be effective, not some half arsed spell or limp wristed slash. Besides, Red mages are REALY expensive and cant even learn the best spells!

Redmage < Thief

The redmage isn't as usefull as a thief. The thief can run from scary things and is realy cheap to buy for.

[Black Mage FF1]

Fire 3 O_O ooh, Cure 2 O_O ooh , shall I continue?

Sure.... If you want......

The problem with redmage is....

they have ok abilities but can only use 1 at a time. This means you have to make sure they are doing the right job at the right time

If you have a good party then you are not going to need to heal/use black magic/attack all at the same time. If you dont have a Wm/Bm then that is 2 extra spots for better characters. Replace those to spots with 2 Red Mages then the problem is solved. Have one red mage heal and another cast spells. Or Take a red mage and a Fighter. The more fighters you have the less you will need to heal. Which is why a Fi/Fi/Fi/Rm > Fi/?/Wm/Bm. With a Fi/Fi/Fi/Rm you can easily kill any enemy and you dont need healing that much.

You talk about being....ok...in many areas as being a strongpoint. you dont NEED a multirole charicter because you can only do 1 thing a turn and you want that thing your doing to be effective, not some half arsed spell or limp wristed slash. Besides, Red mages are REALY expensive and cant even learn the best spells!

Red Mages are not that expensive. A Wm/Bm are A LOT more expensive.
Cant learn the best spells? The only spells he misses out on that are worth getting is NUKE and LIFE2. WOW! He doesnt get to cast NUKE or LIFE2 1 or 2 times! If you didnt have weak characters like the Wm/Bm there wouldnt be any use for LIFE2. And NUKE is easily replaced with ICE3.

Redmage < Thief

The redmage isn't as usefull as a thief. The thief can run from scary things and is realy cheap to buy for.

WOW! The Thief can run! That sure is going to help in boss fights! The Red Mage is stronger then the thief, has more magic, has more spells, better defense and more hp. But I guess being able to run from imps or wolves is more important....
Like I said earlier, I rarely have any 4 person party fail to run on my first try.

After class change the NINJA has a little better defense. But the Red Mage still has more hp and defense really isnt a big problem.

[Dragonfire]

for once i agree with Black Mage FF1

except for his hatred of BM, but thats a given

[Thornaxe Hammerstone]

The RM is better than the BM and WM hands down as he has something to fall back on when his magic runs out, unlike the pure mages with their mighty cat claws and thor hammers!!! The only usefull spells that they have on him are LIF2 and NUKE, which you only have a couple charges of once you reach the ToF.

The Fighter and Black Belt outclass the RM as they can take/deal respectively, insane amounts of damage, to the point where no healing/nukes are needed. Why cast a level 3 elemental spell against monsters who will resist it (thinking ToF) than attack for a solid 200-2000+ depending on your leveles.

The Ninja is on par with the RM as he has hands down superior defense and a similar offense. This is offset by the RM's vast repertoire of more varied magics, the only useful spell the Ninja gets is FAST.

[Dunbar]

Disclaimer: I played the NES version of FF1 ages and ages ago...beat it once with a Fi/Th/WM/BM party. Started playing it again on a WSC emulator with various parties...so my comments come from that perspective. I know there are differences between the new and old versions, so if you are playing on the NES version, take all my comments with a grain of salt.

Comparing the RM/RW to the thief/ninja:

First off, as has been stated before, RM is far far better than theif before you get the class change. No argument here, right?

After class change, the ninja has better defences. Again, no argument...though the two classes have similar hps. Their attacking power is the same. I played a Fi/Th/BB/RM party to see how they compared to one another. I didn't see any real difference in the damage done by the RW or ninja...not surprising as neither of them has excessive str, and the katana and sun sword are nearly identical. But the RM has access to the lvl 3 elemental spells, which can be useful against big groups...by later points in the game, fire2 just don't do enough damage to cast. And the RM can cast Life...nice to have since there are no pheonix downs. And the RM has cure spells, which are handy for the ToF when you need all the healing you can get.

So it's a question of whether or not the ninja's greater defense is better than the RW's greater spellcasting and the RM's better utility in the early game. I'd say no way.

Also, if we are talking about what characters make up an optimal party, why take a thief over a fighter? Basically, the ninja can cast fast. But he has worse defence, less damage, and less hps than a fighter, and the knight can cast healing spells. The fighter is simply better. And at this stage in the game, the ninja's elemental spells are pretty useless.

But at all stages in the game, healing spells are nice to have. Being able to bring the dead back to life is very useful. Early in the game spells like ice/fire/lit2 or 3 are really useful...but the ninja doesn't get these until you no longer really need them; and when you do, you need the level 3 versions, not the level 2 versions the ninja can cast.

So all in all, if you want a spellcaster that can fight, take a RM, not a ninja. If you want someone to tank and do damage, take a fighter. There really isn't a whole lot of point to taking a ninja really...

[demise]

The most powerful party I've had had a red mage in it. 3 black belts & a red mage, mostly for curing and casting Fast.

[Martyr]

3 black belts? You mean Fighters, right?