Who Ultimecia really is

[Future Esthar]

The picture is obviously from Julia .
MAYBE Julia is Edea so the person who possess her (let´s name her X) uses Ultimecia as an excuse for Edea being possessed.Maybe Ulti was a "last hour" excuse.X only has to change Edea´s appearance a little in the "future".
Who is X? I think i know the answer to that but i am not sure so i will not post.It could look crazy here.
I really think that Edea was still possessed in the third disc.X imitates her personality.
Eventualy Seed will find her again as Ultimecia.

[TheAbominatrix]

Julia isnt Edea. Edea has her own backstory. Edea was married to Cid while Julia was married to General Caraway.

The game also clearly explains that Edea is possesed by Ulti. Edea is eventually freed from that posession, which is clear because if not she wouldnt have helped the party.

[Ancient Goddess]

Ulti is NOT possesed. If she was, who is possesing her?

Exactly. The game would not have ended the way it did if there was someone possessing her.

The only possibilities left were Edea,Raine or Julia.

I truly doubt it's Edea. When you enter time compression, (SPOILER)you see all of the dead bodies of future SeeDs...also she wouldn't have hated them if she was the creator of the idea of SeeDs.

Raine...I also doubt this theory. Squall is her son, and I would think that she would have a little more consideration towards him before trying to kill him.

This woman seems to be already possessed.She holds a cup.I think you can see horns on her head with her hair in the background.Could this be Ultimecia? Or Edea?
The place looks like Edea´s house if we take out the mountain.There is a sun and maybe a sea in the background.

How does she seem to be possessed? She's only holding a cup, and there aren't any horns on her. She was just a statue of a woman, which could be Julia, but there weren't any signs that she was possessed. And the landscape...If Square was trying to suggest that, they would have put something more relevant in there so that we could really see Edea's orphanage. A sun and a sea could be anywhere.

Sorry, but I still don't see the relationship between Ultimecia and Julia. I agree with SeeDRankLou, TragicFaustus, and Fallen_Angel. Ultimecia is an individual seperate from the other characters.

[Future Esthar]

"Edea was married to Cid while Julia was married to General Caraway"
Eureka.
There is a major secret phenomena in FF8 named "Well Organised Time Compression".
I have realised this phenomena.And it´s impossible to understand what is really happening in FF8 unless you understand WOTC.It´s a necessary key phenomena.
I can send you a PM explaining it if you wanna me to.But don´t write it on the forums PLEASE.
By the way Edea wanna to convince Squall to send Rinoa to Space.She also wanna to prevent Zell from reaching the hardcore of Pandora.That is why she helps them.That way she can free Adel.

[TheAbominatrix]

Edea doesnt want Adel freed. Edea wants to stay free.

You're going off on silly tangents here. Edea and Julia are not the same person. The game makes that abundantly clear.

[Ancient Goddess]

What reason would Edea have for wanting Adel free? Remember in the game, (SPOILER)she accidently gives Rinoa her powers (in Esthar, visiting Dr. Odine). If anything, she would know that the event happened and possess Rinoa instead of Adel at that time. That doesn't make any sense.

And the Well-Organised-Time-Compression is secret, but it's a key factor? The story seemed clear enough to me, even if it was complicated.

[Future Esthar]

Just to finish.
When I made theories about FF8 I do the following:
1-I look into the dialogues.
2-I look into graphical details
3-I look into events
4-I assume that not every dialogue is thruth
5-I use the graphical details and the events as my final authority on deciding thruth.

Example:

Squall (in FH)-President Deling is dead.

In Deling´s residence we see his body lying on the floor.His body seems to have a lot of energy.And most important HIS EYE BLINKS.
Of course the people down there can´t see his body.And Squall believed in the general opinion.People only see Edea throwing the President high in the air.
So graphical details show that he is alive and the dialogue says he isn´t.
Of course I prefer to believe in the first.Dialogues are useful to reach thruth and interpret events but are never absolute thruths.
So the Sorceress uses regen on Deling (and some revive magic).We can also see a graphical detail about this.
So if there is a dialogue that shows that Ulti is not Julia I will only believe the graphical details that show she is.The dialogues then were lies.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

Woah. I'm an English major, basically a trained foot soldier in dissecting textual and contexual evidence, and even I think you are reading WAY too much into things here.

When I read your first post about Ulty possibly being Julia, I didn't believe you, but yet I thought it was an interesting idea and thought that the evidence you suggested was thought-provoking, although ultimately flawed - even IF Julia were alive, even IF she became Ulty, what is her MOTIVE?

Let's pretend we are a jury and Ulty is on trial for attempting to destory the world. But no one knows who Ulty really is. So the lawyers (in this case, you) start accusing people, like Rinoa, or Ellone, or Julia, or whatnot, with circumstanial evidence, but without irrefutable evidence and plausible motive, there is no way we could convict anyone.

Let's be logical:
What is Ulty trying to do?
Cause Time Compression.
What is that?
A world in which only she can exist.
Why the hell would she want to do that? Because she needs some quality alone time? Some summer reading to catch up on?
The only logical answer is the one TragicFaustus so brilliantly gave. That she can't survive otherwise.
Suddenly, the evil sorceress dooming the world to repeat this endless cycle makes sense. She wants to be freed from this cycle as well. She wants to exist. And the only way she can do that is to keep repeating the cycle until she wins.
Now, none of the people in the game's present - Rinoa, Julia, ect, have any problem existing the the world at its current state. In fact, were Ulty to succeed, they would all be destroyed (Including Julia if the game lied and she were still alive).
So in essence, because EVERYONE but Sorceress Ulty would be destroyed during Time Compression, the paradox twist works for ANY character, living or dead, past or future, NOT just Rinoa. Granted, the game ends if you are KO'd, but its enough that Ulty should not even TRY to kill herself. Therefore, because she attempts to compress time, an act which would kill all characters other than herself, Ulty CANNOT be anyone other than Ulty.
Square just screwed up having a villian who shows up so late in the story that we want to believe that there' more to her than that. There isn't.

[Ancient Goddess]

Woah. I'm an English major, basically a trained foot soldier in dissecting textual and contexual evidence, and even I think you are reading WAY too much into things here.

When I read your first post about Ulty possibly being Julia, I didn't believe you, but yet I thought it was an interesting idea and thought that the evidence you suggested was thought-provoking, although ultimately flawed - even IF Julia were alive, even IF she became Ulty, what is her MOTIVE?

Let's pretend we are a jury and Ulty is on trial for attempting to destory the world. But no one knows who Ulty really is. So the lawyers (in this case, you) start accusing people, like Rinoa, or Ellone, or Julia, or whatnot, with circumstanial evidence, but without irrefutable evidence and plausible motive, there is no way we could convict anyone.

Let's be logical:
What is Ulty trying to do?
Cause Time Compression.
What is that?
A world in which only she can exist.
Why the hell would she want to do that? Because she needs some quality alone time? Some summer reading to catch up on?
The only logical answer is the one TragicFaustus so brilliantly gave. That she can't survive otherwise.
Suddenly, the evil sorceress dooming the world to repeat this endless cycle makes sense. She wants to be freed from this cycle as well. She wants to exist. And the only way she can do that is to keep repeating the cycle until she wins.
Now, none of the people in the game's present - Rinoa, Julia, ect, have any problem existing the the world at its current state. In fact, were Ulty to succeed, they would all be destroyed (Including Julia if the game lied and she were still alive).
So in essence, because EVERYONE but Sorceress Ulty would be destroyed during Time Compression, the paradox twist works for ANY character, living or dead, past or future, NOT just Rinoa. Granted, the game ends if you are KO'd, but its enough that Ulty should not even TRY to kill herself. Therefore, because she attempts to compress time, an act which would kill all characters other than herself, Ulty CANNOT be anyone other than Ulty.
Square just screwed up having a villian who shows up so late in the story that we want to believe that there' more to her than that. There isn't.

Excellent post...I agree with every word.

In Deling´s residence we see his body lying on the floor.His body seems to have a lot of energy.And most important HIS EYE BLINKS.

Every character blinks in the game...I think it was more of a technical thing on Square's part. The energy you see is from the spell Edea used. When the body first hit the stairs, the energy spouted up...Kinda like smoke from a fire.

So the Sorceress uses regen on Deling (and some revive magic).We can also see a graphical detail about this.

When did Edea use regen on Deling? I could have sworn that she left his dead body lying on the stairs...

4-I assume that not every dialogue is thruth
5-I use the graphical details and the events as my final authority on deciding thruth

So if there is a dialogue that shows that Ulti is not Julia I will only believe the graphical details that show she is.The dialogues then were lies.

But you know that not everything is like that. If someone walked up to you and told you their friend thought that you had a nice shirt, would you instantly call them a liar because their friend didn't compliment you to your face? Not every person is lying if someone relays the message. While I agree that things aren't always the way they seem, in my opinion, one shouldn't knock something right off the bat.

[nik0tine]

(simply, because a game wher eyou can't lose would be... odd)

You can lose in FF8?

[DJZen]

Ultimecia is a cyborg sorceress possessed by a computer virus born from the undying consciousness of Sephiroth.

Who goes back in time with her horde of mutant ninjas to kidnap the president. Are you a bad enough dude to save the president?

[Big D]

Who goes back in time with her horde of mutant ninjas to kidnap the president. Are you a bad enough dude to save the president?

Quistis is certainly one bad dude...
This proves that Quistis is Ultimecia. They even have similar hairstyles; and Ultimecia's nihilistic evilness can be seen as a natural result of (SPOILER)Squall's rejection.

[Codak]

... O_o

This is one whacked theory.

I guess I can add more to this .... theory.

It may be possible that Ultemcia possessed Julia at some point. Squall's mother was Raine, right? Look at it this way. Ultemcia obviously knows what the future, past, present it, cause she just has that sort of power. So she knows that her own demise will come from Squall.

Lets take a step back to the Piano scene with Julia. Now, until that scene was shown into the main characters' heads, Julia had not taken a real interest in Laguna. Now, Ultimecia, knowing Laguna and Raine would conceive Squall, she would wish to stop this. So she tried to pursuade Laguna from continuing his 'adventures.' Laguna wanted to write books, but Julia (Ultimecia) wanted Laguna to settle down; Laguna wouldn't have that. This was an attemp to capture Laguna's heart so that Laguna and Raine would never meet and conceive Squall.

Ultimecia's attempt obviously failed. Laguna and Raine then met, whereas Laguna settled down for a bit. But it wasn't until he had actually left that Raine discovered she was pregnant (with Squall). It would then be that Raine could not raise Squall, and would then give Squall to Matron at the Orphanage. Then, once again, Ultimecia would make another attempt to kill Squall, in hopes that she would survive.

Ultimecia would do this by possessing Matron (Edea) and thus, letting her subconcious continue to live. This would later fail, as we find Matron losing her possessed spirit, and becoming a normal human once again.

BUT! Here is where there is very strong evidence that Ultimecia continues to jump from one person to another, still keeping the goal of killing Squall.

Remember when Rinoa became possessed? Ultimecia KNEW that Rinoa was really Squall's love interest; what better way to get the chance to kill him than to possess someone he feels close to? However, knowing Rinoa did not have such powers, Ultimecia would use Rinoa as a vessel.

Rinoa then unlocked Adel, who would then become possessed by Ultimecia. And in the process, Rinoa is feeling the same effects that Matron did once Ultimecia left her soul.

Now, this is where the tide really turns against Ultimecia. Adel was her last resort, to this point, before time compression. If Adel were to die, then Ultimecia would have nothing left to lose, and have to fight by herself. After time compression began, players were treated to those freaky sorceresses, basically just enemies.

We come into another interesting and pivitol position. See, Squall had the lion spirit in him. The Pride. Now that Ultimecia had nothing left, no other vessels to control, she decided to take control of Squall's inner most ambitions and strengths: that happened to spawn Griever.

Once Griever was defeated, the only thing left was two more forms that Ultimecia could take.

And, in the end, Squall never kills Ultimecia, but the cycle continues.

And that, my friends, is how Ultimecia is Ultimecia, and everyone else is still everyone else.

So, in short, the whole timeline is based on Ultimecia's failed attempts to kill Squall.

Edit by Big D: Please don't double-post, use the 'edit/delete' button to amend what you've written.

[Big D]

I was kidding about the "Quistis=Ultimecia" thing.
I believe Ultimecia is Ultimecia, not anyone else. A sorceress born in the future, who inherited powers - and possibly a couple of memories - from a sorceress who got them from a sorceress, and so on back to the sorceress who got the powers from Rinoa.

Pick any character at random, and you can make a theory about how they're 'actually' Ultimecia; however, any such theory depends on two things: (1) that all sorceresses can alter their appearace (Adel is the only one who is known to do that in the game), and (2) that sorceresses do not age. Edea's youthful beauty does not prove this; all Square characters have smooth skin and shiny hair, even Grand Maester Mika in FFX.

Theory #211: Fujin=Ultimecia! They both have silver hair, and a similar stature. You see, Fujin secretly admired Squall; having her feelings crushed by Rinoa drove her into madness, so she found a sorceress and took her powers, eventually becoming Ultimecia. Remember the parade in Deling City? Ultimecia, using Edea, tried to kill Rinoa. This proves beyong any doubt that Rinoa cannot be Ultimecia, and that Fujin actually is.

Theory #212: Mog=Ultimecia! Moogles are second-class citizens in the FFVIII world; we know this because MiniMog (from the PocketStation game) and Ms Moogle are the only moogles mentioned in the whole game. Ms Moogle owns a coffee shop that Selphie liked. A menial job, serving the selfish desires of humans. Clearly, Ultimecia is a moogle who wanted revenge on humanity. What better revenge than compressing time to become a Goddess and absorbing all creation?

[Future Esthar]

I must confess it´s a good theory.But why would Squall try to kill Ultimecia?
I think you are suggesting that Ultimecia wanna to kill Squall JUST to survive.
But even if there is a cycle that cycle must have a beggining.And I don´t see any beggining on Ulti´s cicle.