It's all Odine's fault *big spoilers*

[Mo-Nercy]

Correct me if I am incorrect, but Odine researched Ellone's ability to send one's consciousness to the past and put it all in a machine called 'Junction Machine Ellone' which Ultimecia uses to send her own consciousness back to the present and manipulate sorceress' Edea, Rinoa and Adel.

So in theory, taking into account the little I know about time travel and it's properties. Couldn't Odine destroy the Junction Machine Ellone, preventing it from getting into the hands of Ultimecia in the future, preventing her from sending her consciousness back in time, therefore making Time Compression impossible because she can't reach Ellone unless she's in the Squall's present.

Right?

While I'm on this subject, I'll bring up this scenario too. If Odine destroys Junction Machine Ellone after Edea, Rinoa and Adel have all been possessed, it would change the future and Ultimecia wouldn't be able to compress time...but that also means that Ultimecia would have never been able to send her consciousness back in time to Edea, Rinoa and Adel...so does that mean destroying Junction Machine Ellone would change the past as well as the future?

My head hurts.

[PhoenixAsh]

As you said it would create a paradox, because with the past changed Odine couldn't know to destroy the machine and therefore wouldn't. In theory he could start a parallel timeline containing people from an alternate (the original) future and still get rid of the machine. But that wouldn't solve the problem and is only possible if time travel works like that.
Time travel in VIII doesn't really work with any kind of logic so it's best to just roll with it.

[Iceglow]

your head hurts mine too after 5 mins of thinking that over it started to. but then again its like a lot of things in FF8 what would have happened if Laguna just jumped over the cliff in centra intsead of being a wuss and trying to climb it? Squall might never have been born nor Rinoa for that matter therefore nothing would have happened therefore in my opinion it's Laguna's fault for climbing down that cliff instead of jumping

[selphie666]

In the game, Odine said that he created Junction Machine Ellone in the future and after he did it fell into Ulti's hands, so a much simpler way to stop all of the stuff that was going on would be to kill Odine so that he never builds the stupid thing.

[Future Esthar]

Eureka.
I like that because it destroys the consistency of the superficial story of FFVIII.
The classical "Ultimecia lives in the future and goes to the past to make Time Compression" is a lie and I think Square hinted at that at only one point in FFVIII:
The one we are discussing now.And I find it interesting that Odine was just the one Square used to tell that.That classical story was a NEARLY perfect lie.But the JME discourse just appears to destroy that perfection.

[SeeDRankLou]

While I'm on this subject, I'll bring up this scenario too. If Odine destroys Junction Machine Ellone after Edea, Rinoa and Adel have all been possessed, it would change the future and Ultimecia wouldn't be able to compress time...but that also means that Ultimecia would have never been able to send her consciousness back in time to Edea, Rinoa and Adel...so does that mean destroying Junction Machine Ellone would change the past as well as the future?

My head hurts.

Yeah. So, if Odine destroys the Junction Machine Ellone, Ultimecia would never have been able to perform Time Compression. But then the past would be change because the events with Ultimecia dieing and Edea taking her power also would never have happened. Thusly, Edea would have never gotten the idea for SeeD and none of the events with Squall and co. would have happened. However, the events with Laguana and Ellone would have happened, Odine would not have known to destroy his machine and the Ultimecia would have gotten her hands on the machine and performed Time Compression, which means Edea would have her powers and SeeD would exists, and all the events in the game would happen.

Did you get any of that? Neither did I.

[Sir Bahamut]

Ellone says the past can't change.

Hence, whatever Odine would have done wouldn't have changed a thing. Kill Odine? The machine would still have been built somehow, because since the line of time in FF8 never changes, Ultimecia will ALWAYS get hold of the machine.

[TasteyPies]

Ellone says the past can't change.

Hence, whatever Odine would have done wouldn't have changed a thing. Kill Odine? The machine would still have been built somehow, because since the line of time in FF8 never changes, Ultimecia will ALWAYS get hold of the machine.

She says it won't change through "time travel." The doesn't exclude changing the outcome of what may be after knowing what would be.

[Sir Bahamut]

She says "you can't change the past".

That means that no matter how much timetravelling you do, you won't change anything because your timetravelling was a natural part of time.
We can extend this to see that the future can't change either.
You see, someone from the future, might travel to a section of his own past, which would at the same time be part of someone elses, say Squalls future. Like this:

Squall---------------Where Mr. X returns to.--------Mr X.
Time---->

This is exactly what Ultimecia does. She arrives in our time from the future, and since she can't change the past either, Squall and co can't change their future.

Hence, time doesn't ever change.

[Optium]

What is even cooler is that he wouldn't have to destroy the machine for
things to come back to normal. All he would have to do is decide to
destroy the machine (then of course follow up by destroying it, but to
actually affect the future all he would have to do is decide to destroy it),
and in fact someone stepping on a bug somewhere in Galbadia could affect
his decision due to the butterfly effect and thus someone taking a shortcut
home to Galbadia and stepping on that bug could have saved the world.

So really, it's all that Galbadian's fault for going the long way. ;]

.opt

[Sir Bahamut]

You know, if you found a way past my arguments for time never changing, it would be nice to hear how, instead of just pretending like I never made a post to begin with.

[Optium]

You know, if you found a way past my arguments for time never changing, it would be nice to hear how, instead of just pretending like I never made a post to begin with.

I didn't read your post anyway. :\

My post wasn't really an argument, more just thinking out loud. The idea
has been going around in my head for a while now and it has nothing to do
with this game. The basic principle is that people always say something
like "if so and so changed this then the future would change" but in
reality all so and so would have to do is decide to change something for
the future to change (this is of course only if you believe in completely
free will).

Now on the subject of time never changing, a more accepted time
travel theory is the super-string theory. Basically they say that time is
like a giant string. At the beginning of time there was one string. Then
the big bang happened and that created a little strand off the main
string where the big bang has not yet happened. Now some planets fly
this way, some that, and every single event creates a new strand. So
within a millisecond there will be googols of googols of strands. Now if
you were to travel in time and say save JFK, you would not be able to
travel back to your future and find a different world, rather you would
create another strand by saving JFK and you would only be able to
move foreward in that strand.

.opt

[Sir Bahamut]

Yeah, superstrings and P-branes and all that is all fine and dandy in the real world, but FF8 isn't the real world.
Square made up their own definition of time.

[Optium]

Let's say Square did make a time system where time runs like a cassette
tape and nothing will change what happens, then there would be no such
thing as free will. How is it then that if you die in game the game is over?
Surely there is no other group of kids who will take up the fight against a
sorceress and then one of them turn into a sorceress and be possessed. If
this does happen then time is no longer just an unchangable force but an
animate one which has predetirmined what will happen. Now let's imagine
that somehow this is true, why would time not always keep Squall and co
alive in order to fulfill its desires? Why is it that you can die and the world
will end, or you can live and save it? This is, in a sense, a free choice and
thus time cannot be static.

.opt

[Queen Anthai]

Quit trying to ruin a perfectly flawed storyline with logic!