Machiavelli Sucks

[Shlup]

So, uh, how 'bout that Machiavelli? The whole 'do what you gotta do' and 'the ends justify the means' thing. Anyone you can think of who reminds you of those kinds of ideas? Hmm, anyone?

A lot of people bring up the whole Iraq thing when this comes up. Political leaders are too easy though. What do you think?

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I've never been a fan of "the ends justify the means" as an argument. Evil actions are evil actions no matter the goal.

[Shlup]

But the point of the thread is to think of a person that may have employed Machiavelli's ideals to succeed in life, whether they be a politician, business person, artist, whatever.

You know, like... someone I could write a ten page paper on.

[Yamaneko]

Machiavelli was no idiot. You can't rule without the people's consent. You can't treat the people you rule over like slaves without risking being overthrown or executed. You give a little to make it seem like you're giving a lot, but you're actually getting more than you're giving. That's Machiavelli.

EDIT: At the very least hold a large army that always agrees with you.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Well, one could say that the Iraq war and the War on Terror was used by George W. Bush to ensure that he will remain in power for as long as possible. Such a tactic is actually fairly common in history, as I understand it. A poor ruler uses a distraction of some sort (war seems favorable, especially with a weaker country) in order to divert attention away from their own actions.

[Strider]

Two words: Bill Gates.

[Doomgaze]

how long until someone responds OMG I LOVE TUPAC

[Shlup]

George W. Bush, Bill Gates, and, yes, even Tupac have been taken. Along with Malcom X, Spike Lee, Frank Sinatra, Walt Disney, and Henry Ford.

I was thinking of going with Britney Spears.

[Del Murder]

Al Capone.

[eestlinc]

Kagetsu

[BuruDogH]

hmm, this conversation seems to be diverted from the topic... ahem...
aneway,
i think a good example of machiavellian behavior is in the character if Iago in Shakespears Othello. Iago sacrifices and minipulates those around Othello merely to destroy Othello himself. Even Iago himself admits that all those he wants to and destroys are good hearted people and that it is just he who wants to detroy them in revenge for Othello's not picking him as his leutenant, well, so he says. i think what should be seen is his mere enjoyment of mischieve and his evil nature. i personally dont think that kind of evil can exist, but i suppose shakespear wanted to show us how demented iago's objectives were in destroying good people - which makes the play a tragedy. this evil however does show us a perfect example of machiavelli's philosophy, that one disregards all decency in his means to achieve his goal, iago destroyed four people in his conquest, and most probably himself too just to achieve his means, and in the end, did not even show remorse for it.

[Zell's Fists of Fury]

Hitler. It's Hitler, right? It's Hitler. I knew it. Somebody give me a medal.

Note that I did not read any of this thread and I have no idea who Machavaialikkal is.

[DMKA]

OMG I LOVE TUPAC

[Shlup]

hmm, this conversation seems to be diverted from the topic... ahem...
aneway,
i think a good example of machiavellian behavior is in the character if Iago in Shakespears Othello. Iago sacrifices and minipulates those around Othello merely to destroy Othello himself. Even Iago himself admits that all those he wants to and destroys are good hearted people and that it is just he who wants to detroy them in revenge for Othello's not picking him as his leutenant, well, so he says. i think what should be seen is his mere enjoyment of mischieve and his evil nature. i personally dont think that kind of evil can exist, but i suppose shakespear wanted to show us how demented iago's objectives were in destroying good people - which makes the play a tragedy. this evil however does show us a perfect example of machiavelli's philosophy, that one disregards all decency in his means to achieve his goal, iago destroyed four people in his conquest, and most probably himself too just to achieve his means, and in the end, did not even show remorse for it.

That's a good answer. I need a real person though.

I think Britney Spears would be really easy, or another pop-whore, but I loathe the idea of focusing research on her for three weeks.

[Skogs]

Hugh Hefner.