Do you believe there was an Armenian Genocide??

[mecharmor23]

Hello everyone, I found out something interesting when studying wwII and its holocaust and that one of Adolf Hitler's quotes says something like "who remembers the armenian genocide anyways?" while telling his SS troops to carry on with the holocaust.

I immediately searched the internet for the topic of Armenian Genocide by the Ottoman Empire now Turkey. It does appear that evidence is mostly based upon the survivors and very few from the outside world. Some of the Turks on the internet denied the Armenian Genocide. They refuse to accept Armenian based sources for some reason and yet I seem to have a hard time finding sources and facts from non-Armenians. Such as documents from Americans, British, Turkish or other foreigners online.

Hmmm..... I don't know. I am neither Turkish nor Armenian, but it is just interesting how so few know about this and how few evidence there was regarding the Armenian Genocide. Not to mention that only and small handfull of countries only recognise it as genocide.

[War Angel]

Yes, there was undeniably a Turkish-executed genocide of the Armenians. An estimated of 700,000 Armenians were killed... it was in, errrr, 1908, I think.

Oh, and the only countries in the world (that I know of) to have not acknowledged this fact are of-course Turkey, and with extreme irony - my own country, Israel. Still, it's a well-known fact by the citizens of this nation... just not a formal decision, mainly because we want to keep things cool with Turkey (about the only Muslim nation with which we're on almost friendly terms).

[Shadow Nexus]

Mmm...well, as far as I know, yes, it was a genocide. About the denying such thing, well, I am personally very skeptical on stuff about history, yet I personally do not believe it was false. Same goes for the Nazi Holocaust, there are several people who attempt to proove it was a manipulation from the winning side, and that it was greatly exagerated. Personally, I believe that after saying such a scandalous thing- wich is quite a lack of respect to the victims- you must back it up with solid arguments to make your point. I have read many arguments against the Holocaust, most wich I find very weak, and some are more or less solid but not enough to actually make up a good theory, so I believe such denial can't be taken seriously. Actually, it can be considered preety offensive. I really do not consider myself to know enough on the topic to give a serious opinion in the issue, but if asked, I do believe both genocides existed.

[Shadow Nexus]

Mmm...well, as far as I know, yes, it was a genocide. About the denying such thing, well, I am personally very skeptical on stuff about history, yet I personally do not believe it was false. Same goes for the Nazi Holocaust, there are several people who attempt to proove it was a manipulation from the winning side, and that it was greatly exagerated. Personally, I believe that after saying such a scandalous thing- wich is quite a lack of respect to the victims- you must back it up with solid arguments to make your point. I have read many arguments against the Holocaust, most wich I find very weak, and some are more or less solid but not enough to actually make up a good theory, so I believe such denial can't be taken seriously. Actually, it can be considered preety offensive. I really do not consider myself to know enough on the topic to give a serious opinion in the issue, but if asked, I do believe both genocides existed.

[Turk]

It was genocide.

Yet nobody speaks of what sparked the nationalist party in the Ottoman Empire to commit such an act. The Armenian-Russian massacres of Muslims in Armenian-Russian occupied territories.

And today nobody speaks of the Armenian occupation and ethnic cleansing of Azerbaijan, and them taking pregnant woman and cutting their stomachs open.

The thing about Turkey and Israel is that they're not going to recognize any genocide because they're both guilty of it. Turkey against Armenians (regardless of the circumstances I mentioned above), and Israel against Muslims. If they recognized any sort of genocide people would point to their hypocracy and force them to recognize what they themselves did.
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If you look objectively, every nation is guilty of genocide at some point in history. Genocide however is a political weapon. Once a genocide is "recognized" you can start making demands for compensation (money and/or land).

[War Angel]

The thing about Turkey and Israel is that they're not going to recognize any genocide because they're both guilty of it.

Mmmmm? Easy there with the accusations, laddie. Israel has never commited, nor will it ever commit genocide - upon anyone. I'd like you to give some sort of evidence for this so-called 'genocide' of Muslims. There have been wars, yes. Innocent people have been killed, yes. But genocide? No. Never.

[Shadow Nexus]

War Angel is right. I will never defend Sharon or his way of acting, and I believe he is responsible for murders, and some atrocities. But genocide is, according to the dictionary, a prosecution and extermination of a group because of race, religion or political ideology. As far as I know, the Israel goverment has never attempted to exterminate the whole muslim race. Sure, there have been several abuses, murders and such, I do believe there is a repression (I'm not saying the other side is completly innocent either) but there is no genocide. If there was actually a genocide, Israel would already would have put all the muslims in extermination camps.

Genocide is a term applied for Spanish inquisition, Nazi Germany and some other sad moments in history. But the Israel case is not one of the genocide moments, even if it's preety sad.

[theundeadhero]

Another genocide people forget about is the genocide Americans commited against the Native Americans . Thousands of Indians died but they just shrug it off like, "Oh well..."

[War Angel]

Genocide is a term applied for Spanish inquisition,

Eh, no. While presumanly many thousands died during the Inquisition, it targered specific individuals, not entire races\countries. Even certain other mass-killings (like the bombing of London by Germany, or the A-bomb on Japan by the USA) are not genocides - genocide is the attempt at the elimination of a people.

[The Captain]

Just a side note:

It's sad when we begin to classify ways that people have been murdered into sub-groups when the fact is that people were indeed murdered and those accountable almost always go unpunished.

On a whole, Genocides are usually saved for when a nation decides to make it a national policy to kill citizens either within its borders or outside, but how Genocide is even classified today is up for debate.

I'd just hope a world where any kind of murder, be it a single homicide or a genocide is met with justice and that those who commit these horrible acts are caught and punished can still be possible and I truly do believe it can be if the right steps are taken and we as a society really take a long, hard look at ourselves and realize that killing those different from us solves nothing.

Take care all.

[Shadow Nexus]

it targered specific individuals, not entire races\countries.

Genocide targets a group of people discriminated in terms of nationality, race and religion. Spanish Inquisition was the third. Woah, I'm so proud of the story of my country I think I am going to wave my red and yellow flag. Red for the blood of the jews we killed and yellow for the gold we stole from South America. Yay. Olé, olé, etc.

It's sad when we begin to classify ways that people have been murdered into sub-groups

Why is it sad? It's part of the richness of the language. The sad part is that those words have to exist, but yes, there are different ways of murdering people, and thus different terms. Hitler was a genocide, Jack the Ripper a serial killer, Oedipus a parricide (well, I don't know if thats the term in English) and Bush is a chimp that somehow got to direct a powerful nation.

I'd just hope a world where any kind of murder, be it a single homicide or a genocide is met with justice and that those who commit these horrible acts are caught and punished can still be possible

I agree with you. I believe Saddam should be judged (by the way, he was going to, but I see nothing about it in the press), but I also believe there should be a trial for Bush, Blair and Aznar: if USA, England and Spain were not democratic countires, do you believe the Azores trio would be so happy now? Makes me wonder whats the point of the laws. Of course, I haven't studied the laws a lot, but as far as I know, the war was considered illegal.

On the good part, Pinochet may be judged now, but of course, since he's old his ferocious lawyers seem to find there a reason why he could not face judgment. Damn, I would love that bastard to die in prison, rotting in a cell, he is probably the person to whom I wish more pain, along with Videla. Yeah, I know hating is not good.

[lordblazer]

Mmm...well, as far as I know, yes, it was a genocide. About the denying such thing, well, I am personally very skeptical on stuff about history, yet I personally do not believe it was false. Same goes for the Nazi Holocaust, there are several people who attempt to proove it was a manipulation from the winning side, and that it was greatly exagerated. Personally, I believe that after saying such a scandalous thing- wich is quite a lack of respect to the victims- you must back it up with solid arguments to make your point. I have read many arguments against the Holocaust, most wich I find very weak, and some are more or less solid but not enough to actually make up a good theory, so I believe such denial can't be taken seriously. Actually, it can be considered preety offensive. I really do not consider myself to know enough on the topic to give a serious opinion in the issue, but if asked, I do believe both genocides existed.

WEll the Holocaust thing was real talk to any WW2 veteran who saw these camps.IT was horrible my grandfather witnessed a camp.Man those people were living skeletons.For those who are skeptical of the holocaust reall need to shoot themselves in the head ebcause it really wasn't that long ago since it happened.As for the Armenian Genocide well you know it actual;ly happened.Though the Turkish government denies it.I asked my turkish friend why but he kinda stuttered and refused to answer my question.Then he called me an essek for asking him if it really happen.Of course i already knew..

[Shadow Nexus]

I think skepticism towards the Holocaust dosen't go around if the repression against the Jews happened, because it was very obvious. It goes around the whole question of if they actually made mass executions in gas chambers.

[Itsunari 2000]

It seems to me that this past century has almost been characterized by genocide in all corners of the world ... Shameful.