The JENOVA-theory (SPOILERS AHEAD)

[Flashback007]

Ok, this is one of my theory's. I have thought of it myself, but it can be that other people also believe in this theory, so if so I didn't steal it from you, it's just a coidcidence.

Ok, first of all, let's look at the facts.

A few years before everything in FFVII happened Cloud, Sephiroth and Zack went to Nibelheim. There Sephiroth discovered that Shinra had used him and that Sephiroth actually believed that he was the child of JENOVA, who had crashed into the Nothern Crater. He turned into a rage set fire on Nibelheim, killed people and dissapeared. After that there wasn't heard of him anymore. Shinra moved JENOVA from Nibelheim to Midgar.

Those are the facts that are 100% sure.

Then what all happens in FFVII: "sephiroth" breaks JENOVA out and kills president Shinra. "Sephiroth" travels towards Junon, goes on the boat, where an encouter takes place between him and the party. "Sephiroth" travells futher Temple of Ancients, City of Ancients etc. And ends up killing Aeris. that is the second time that the party really stands against "Sephiroth". Again they have to fight with JENOVA. "Sephiroth" travells futher towards the Nothern Crater, also everyone parcipating in the Reunion is also going there. During the travell to the Nothern Crater, the party encouters "Sephiroth" one more time. And again JENOVA is the one they have to fight. After that Cloud gives the black materia to someone, but "Sephiroth" lures that one into a trick so that. Cloud who's mind goes crazy for the second time can give it to Sephiroth. But, the Sephiroth Cloud gives the materia to is frozen and misses is legs. It also seems he has been hanging there for a while.

Now, how is that possible then? My explantion for that is, that the party and Shinra isn't chasing Sephiroth no, they are chasing JENOVA. It's JENOVA who did all those things. Killing president Shinra, the encouters with Sephiroth and the killing of Aeris. Why do I think that? There are different reason:
- Sephiroth is frozen and misses his legs when you see him in the icecube in the Nothern Crater. Plus the ice-cube is stucked towards some hard plants.
-Everytime you get very near to Sephiroth, you encouter JENOVA. How is it that you never see JENOVA when you are chasing Sephiroth, but do encouter her.
-Both Cloud and Sephiroth are infected with JENOVA-cells by Hojo. Both are suddenly acting wierd.

How does JENOVA do this? I shall take Sephiroth and Cloud first. Sephiroth was the first "experiment" of Hojo, which he infected with JENOVA-cells. As soon as Sephiroth got curious and saw JENOVA in Nibelheim, he got mad. JENOVA somehow (telepatic, maybe) controlled Sephiroth. That way she forced Sephiroth in creating a chaos in Nibelheim, hoping that she was able to escape. Unfortunatly she was captured by Shinra. And they brought her to Midgar. Meanwhile Cloud was infected with JENOVA-cells. Then suddenly when Cloud, Barrett and Tifa were in the Shinra-building to free Aeris, JENOVA remembered the JENOVA-cells. Hojo also tried the cells on him and with the help of Hojo JENOVA escaped. Hojo (the father of Sephiroth) used the sword of Sephiroth to kill everyone. That way the chaos was created so that JENOVA escaped. This time it worked. Probarly because the prisoners escaped. In the temple of Ancients JENOVA used her power so that Cloud (telepaticly instructed by JENOVA) could and over the Black Materia and that also happened in the Nothern Crater when Cloud handed over the Black Materia to the frozen Sephiroth and so to JENOVA
Then what about the others? According what I just said, those JENOVA cells have the power to control someone. Maybe JENOVA is able to spread a kind of poison, that messes with the mind of people. They see things that are not really there. But sometimes (the three close encounters) JENOVA wasn't able to use her poison anymore and got in to trouble and had to show herself. But most of the time she was able to fool people.

Is the Sephiroth in the end of the game then the real Sephiroth? Maybe, but I don't believe so. I think JENOVA somehow managed to get the Black Materia in to her, maybe by consuming the frozen Sephiroth and she growed in her powers. That way she could control Hojo to destroy the barrier around the Nothern Crater. She was also able to summon the meteor. She couldn't control Cloud anymore, because he healed somehow from the JENOVAcells. By falling the Mako-energy. The last bosses are all illusions from JENOVA and the last one, is maybe the ultimate form of JENOVA. And she looked like Sephiroth maybe be cause she consumed him or maybe an other illusion. But she got defeated. A last bit of life of her confronted Cloud one more time with his JENOVA-cells. But Cloud saw Sephiroth as his ultimate enemy and defeated him and so the JENOVA-cells in his head.

I hope you understand my theory and maybe it's wrong or maybe it's right I don't know that. Maybe everything will be cleared out in Advent Children. We shall see. But for now, I believe in this theory.

[MistaCloudStrife]

Alright... i sort of agree with your theory BUT... not all of it...

I think Sephiroth actually did all that on his own... not JENOVA... theres no reason for JENOVA to take his form... i think every since before in Nibelhiem Sephiroth became influenced by JENOVA and did whatever she said, since she was his "Mother" or whatever... BUT Cloud killed Sephiroth before he tried to leave and JENOVAs head was lost as well...

Now, if you notice... the Sephiroth with no legs... hes in the area with the WEAPONs if i remember correctly... IMO he was being re made in that substance similar to how the WEAPONs are being made... of course it takes a long time... years to be exact... so hes actually been there the whole time... but he projects himself to other places like what he did in Shinra Headquarters... thats how he can fly all over the place and everything... and disappear and stuff....

Now in Advent Children... the Brothers Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo... they supposedly have the head of JENOVA... and they are planning to have another reunion... which makes me think.. that Sephiroth with no legs... I think he is now complete and the only thing needed now is... the reunion...



Thats what i think... if anyone thinks otherwise tell me.. ^_~

[BudSoda02]

You're both on the right track but a little off. Sephiroth spent all that night in Niblihem (Cloud's flashback) looking up information on Jenova. Seeing this information caused him to go insane. He tore the 'Jenova' door open in the reactor, trying to 'set' her free. Fortunately Cloud & Zack intervened, preventing him from this. More later kay?
Thanks- BudSoda02 BudSoda02@yahoo.com

[Raistlin]

My explantion for that is, that the party and Shinra isn't chasing Sephiroth no, they are chasing JENOVA.

'Tis what Kishi and I have been saying for a while now. However, unlike him, I don't think the theories conclusive, just most probable.

[feioncastor]

Hojo (the father of Sephiroth) used the sword of Sephiroth to kill everyone

I agree with you, except for this one line. Hojo couldn't have used the Masamune to do anything because it is made abundantly clear that only Sephiroth is mighty enough to wield the sword.

I know what you're all thinking. If only he could do it, then it must've been him that killed Shin-Ra, and so forth, but that's not true. Why was Sephiroth able to wield such a great sword? Because he was injected with Jenova cells while in Lucrecia's womb. So naturally, if it was Jenova's strength that strengthened Sephiroth, then Jenova herself would easily be able to do it, even if taking on the form of Sephiroth.

My questions:

When you go back to Nibelheim, it is not burned down. If Sephiroth burned it down, why is it still there? And why does no one there know Cloud, if he grew up there? And if he didn't grow up there, then why does Tifa remember the promise he made her at the well?

Feion

[Heath]

Why would Hojo want to kill Shinra, what would he gain from it? He'd already been given the go ahead for his experiment with the Ancients and the Promised Land so he was a happy chappy as far as his research was concerned.

Also, note the fact that Sephiroth was the only person to be able to effectively use the Masamune, Tifa takes it and struggles with Sephiroth over it and never actually uses it, one could assume she wanted to use it but was unable to, otherwise why would she have picked it up?

My questions:

When you go back to Nibelheim, it is not burned down. If Sephiroth burned it down, why is it still there? And why does no one there know Cloud, if he grew up there? And if he didn't grow up there, then why does Tifa remember the promise he made her at the well?

Feion

That's explained quite clearly in-game that the Shinra rebuilt the town and hired actors to live in the rebuilt Nibelheim so no one would be the wiser about the whole Sephiroth ordeal. Hence why no one remembers the incident in Nibelheim other than Tifa and Cloud.

[Raistlin]

Ok, I actually bothered to read through the whole theory this time.

Is the Sephiroth in the end of the game then the real Sephiroth? Maybe, but I don't believe so. I think JENOVA somehow managed to get the Black Materia in to her, maybe by consuming the frozen Sephiroth and she growed in her powers. That way she could control Hojo to destroy the barrier around the Nothern Crater. She was also able to summon the meteor. She couldn't control Cloud anymore, because he healed somehow from the JENOVAcells. By falling the Mako-energy. The last bosses are all illusions from JENOVA and the last one, is maybe the ultimate form of JENOVA. And she looked like Sephiroth maybe be cause she consumed him or maybe an other illusion. But she got defeated. A last bit of life of her confronted Cloud one more time with his JENOVA-cells. But Cloud saw Sephiroth as his ultimate enemy and defeated him and so the JENOVA-cells in his head.

That's a little out there. It's MUCH more simple and just as logical to say the last boss really was Sephiroth, who had been contained in the frozen mako in the North Crater for the past five years. Actually, it's more logical: why would Jenova get rid of Sephiroth, who could be very useful to her?

[auron_790]

The whole theory seemed very complicated but it took up most of the game. I think the whole concept of this theory was vital to the game but did we actually find out the true meaning of Jenova? Many people had their own views. Will we find out a real answer?

[peelfish]

I think an important piece of evidence for this theory that is often overlooked is the role of meteor. Jenova created Northern Crater when it landed from space. this wounded the planet in the same way as meteor would have. In the tapes in Icicle Ifalna says that after this event the Cetra helped heal the planet. If the Cetra had not intervened I believe Jenova would have taken control of the Lifestream at that time. However she was defeated and trapped. 2000 years later the events in the game happen and I think the focus of VII is this second attempt of Jenova to take over the Lifestream even though it is deeply hidden.
Also on the point of "Sephiroth" being Jenova there is a quote by Tifa following the fight with Jenova death when J-cells appear on the ground along the lines of, you mean we've been following Jenova all this time. Anyway thats a bit of my view on the issue for those interested

[xxspawnerxx]

Ok, this is one of my theory's. I have thought of it myself, but it can be that other people also believe in this theory, so if so I didn't steal it from you, it's just a coidcidence.

Ok, first of all, let's look at the facts.

A few years before everything in FFVII happened Cloud, Sephiroth and Zack went to Nibelheim. There Sephiroth discovered that Shinra had used him and that Sephiroth actually believed that he was the child of JENOVA, who had crashed into the Nothern Crater. He turned into a rage set fire on Nibelheim, killed people and dissapeared. After that there wasn't heard of him anymore. Shinra moved JENOVA from Nibelheim to Midgar.

Those are the facts that are 100% sure.

Then what all happens in FFVII: "sephiroth" breaks JENOVA out and kills president Shinra. "Sephiroth" travels towards Junon, goes on the boat, where an encouter takes place between him and the party. "Sephiroth" travells futher Temple of Ancients, City of Ancients etc. And ends up killing Aeris. that is the second time that the party really stands against "Sephiroth". Again they have to fight with JENOVA. "Sephiroth" travells futher towards the Nothern Crater, also everyone parcipating in the Reunion is also going there. During the travell to the Nothern Crater, the party encouters "Sephiroth" one more time. And again JENOVA is the one they have to fight. After that Cloud gives the black materia to someone, but "Sephiroth" lures that one into a trick so that. Cloud who's mind goes crazy for the second time can give it to Sephiroth. But, the Sephiroth Cloud gives the materia to is frozen and misses is legs. It also seems he has been hanging there for a while.

Now, how is that possible then? My explantion for that is, that the party and Shinra isn't chasing Sephiroth no, they are chasing JENOVA. It's JENOVA who did all those things. Killing president Shinra, the encouters with Sephiroth and the killing of Aeris. Why do I think that? There are different reason:
- Sephiroth is frozen and misses his legs when you see him in the icecube in the Nothern Crater. Plus the ice-cube is stucked towards some hard plants.
-Everytime you get very near to Sephiroth, you encouter JENOVA. How is it that you never see JENOVA when you are chasing Sephiroth, but do encouter her.
-Both Cloud and Sephiroth are infected with JENOVA-cells by Hojo. Both are suddenly acting wierd.

How does JENOVA do this? I shall take Sephiroth and Cloud first. Sephiroth was the first "experiment" of Hojo, which he infected with JENOVA-cells. As soon as Sephiroth got curious and saw JENOVA in Nibelheim, he got mad. JENOVA somehow (telepatic, maybe) controlled Sephiroth. That way she forced Sephiroth in creating a chaos in Nibelheim, hoping that she was able to escape. Unfortunatly she was captured by Shinra. And they brought her to Midgar. Meanwhile Cloud was infected with JENOVA-cells. Then suddenly when Cloud, Barrett and Tifa were in the Shinra-building to free Aeris, JENOVA remembered the JENOVA-cells. Hojo also tried the cells on him and with the help of Hojo JENOVA escaped. Hojo (the father of Sephiroth) used the sword of Sephiroth to kill everyone. That way the chaos was created so that JENOVA escaped. This time it worked. Probarly because the prisoners escaped. In the temple of Ancients JENOVA used her power so that Cloud (telepaticly instructed by JENOVA) could and over the Black Materia and that also happened in the Nothern Crater when Cloud handed over the Black Materia to the frozen Sephiroth and so to JENOVA
Then what about the others? According what I just said, those JENOVA cells have the power to control someone. Maybe JENOVA is able to spread a kind of poison, that messes with the mind of people. They see things that are not really there. But sometimes (the three close encounters) JENOVA wasn't able to use her poison anymore and got in to trouble and had to show herself. But most of the time she was able to fool people.

Is the Sephiroth in the end of the game then the real Sephiroth? Maybe, but I don't believe so. I think JENOVA somehow managed to get the Black Materia in to her, maybe by consuming the frozen Sephiroth and she growed in her powers. That way she could control Hojo to destroy the barrier around the Nothern Crater. She was also able to summon the meteor. She couldn't control Cloud anymore, because he healed somehow from the JENOVAcells. By falling the Mako-energy. The last bosses are all illusions from JENOVA and the last one, is maybe the ultimate form of JENOVA. And she looked like Sephiroth maybe be cause she consumed him or maybe an other illusion. But she got defeated. A last bit of life of her confronted Cloud one more time with his JENOVA-cells. But Cloud saw Sephiroth as his ultimate enemy and defeated him and so the JENOVA-cells in his head.

I hope you understand my theory and maybe it's wrong or maybe it's right I don't know that. Maybe everything will be cleared out in Advent Children. We shall see. But for now, I believe in this theory.

I think your absolutly right so the voices in clouds head is jenova?

[Raistlin]

I think your absolutly right so the voices in clouds head is jenova?

The voices don't really matter. Could be Jenova, could be the real Sephiroth up in the North Crater. Who knows?

Jenova created Northern Crater when it landed from space. this wounded the planet in the same way as meteor would have.

Hardly. Jenova made a crater. Meteor was meant to destroy the Planet. Meteor's about 57349205 times the size of Jenova.

If the Cetra had not intervened I believe Jenova would have taken control of the Lifestream at that time. However she was defeated and trapped. 2000 years later the events in the game happen and I think the focus of VII is this second attempt of Jenova to take over the Lifestream even though it is deeply hidden.

I honestly believe that Jenova doesn't give a damn about the Lifestream. I think she just wanted to destroy the Planet(Meteor was meant to destroy the Planet, and the whole Lifetsream theory was just meant to further manipulate Sephiroth to do her bidding). She, being an alien, can't manipulate the Lifestream like Sephiroth - otherwise, she could've just summoned Meteor herself, and not needed Sephiroth.

[novarta]

i think that jenova controls the first sephiroth clone, be cause sepiroth is son of lurceria(or what is her name) and that why jenova can´t have so strong control to original sepihroth<-- and if that is true jenova is using sepiroth for her own good or sepiroth is using jenova for his own good.
what was that about when hojo said that cloud was the only succesful sepiroth clone.

[Raistlin]

what was that about when hojo said that cloud was the only succesful sepiroth clone.

He called Cloud a failure clone. Several times.

[feioncastor]

i think that jenova controls the first sephiroth clone, be cause sepiroth is son of lurceria(or what is her name) and that why jenova can´t have so strong control to original sepihroth<-- and if that is true jenova is using sepiroth for her own good or sepiroth is using jenova for his own good.
what was that about when hojo said that cloud was the only succesful sepiroth clone.

Cloud was definitely not a succesful clone, which is which is why he doesn't have a tatoo, right? All of the Sephiroth clones got a tatoo of what number they were.

So I gotta know, was Cloud really a failed experiment? And if not, was he really injected with Jenova cells? And if so, then why would they inject some guy with Jenova Cells if they weren't experimenting on him?

This game is so complicated.

Feion

[nihowma buffet]

here's my two cents.

in the shinra mansion, i believe jenova merely cohersed sephiroth. she probably egged him on a bit more than he would have normally, but i believe that it was mostly sephiroth until he died in the mt. nibel reactor. i believe that it was at this point that jenova "assimilated" sephiroth and "became" him.

i've always thought it was curious that after the events at the north crater, sephiroth has NO lines. none. the only times he speaks in game time/not in a flashback are very cryptic. i think bits and pieces of sephiroth's personality show through, but i believe that's all jenova. even when you fight him at the end of the game, "sephiroth" says nothing. he just sits on top of holy and attacks you.

and based on his transformation at the end of the game, i believe that was jenova as well. even when hojo mutated himself with jenova cells, his mutation wasn't nearly the level of sephiroth's. i think it would take jenova herself to do that to an organism.

those are just my thoughts.