I don't get it. So, the memories Cloud was having at the start of the game were all Zack's? What happened to Zack though? 0_o Its been a while since I played the game.
Zack/Cloud *unmarked spoilers*
I don't get it. So, the memories Cloud was having at the start of the game were all Zack's? What happened to Zack though? 0_o Its been a while since I played the game.
After Cloud and Zack escaped from the laboratory in Nibelheim, they headed towards Midgar.
Zack got killed and Cloud proceeded to Midgar to fulfill Zack's wish, which was to become a mercenary.
A combination of stress, guilt, and inferiority caused Cloud to take many of Zack's memories and make them his own; memories he learned from long conversations with Zack. After Zack was shot and killed by Shin Ra soldiers just outside of Midgar, Cloud is found by Tifa (in Zack's clothing no less) who he wanted desperatly to impress (especially when he was younger) so he began to use Zack's life, saying he was in SOLDIER and all that (this is just one of the catalysts, mind you, but it seems to be the first time Cloud does this so it merits mention).
He doesnt directly have Zack's memories, only what Zack told him, as proven by the fact that Cloud doesnt 'remember' Aerith, who had been Zack's girlfriend.
edit: Oh, and to be clear, Cloud believes every word he says the truth. So all this stuff about being in SOLDIER and whatnot, he isnt conciously lying everytime. Tifa knows something is up, so she begins to prod him gently, reminding him of things and trying to get a clear picture of what's wrong. She only knows the extent (and can only help him out of his false identity) when she's in his mind in the Lifestream.
Last edited by TheAbominatrix; 12-14-2004 at 05:37 PM.
Oh...okay! Thanks! that cleared up a lot! ^^
You know what i dont get??
Those tubes in the ShinRa mansion... they were each in seperate tubes... now how in the hell did they communicate to each other in those tubes.... they planned thier escape... i remember they talked to each other saying to leave when they were being fed... how did they communicate..?? wierd...
As for the Cloud and Zack thing...
Cloud took memories from Zack after he died... the memories he took were...
-being in SOLDIER
-becoming a mercenary
-some things that happened in Nibelhiem (not all of them)
Some people mix some up... From the time that Tifa was leading the way to the reactor... Cloud was actually the Shinra Soldier following along... he was the one that didnt get lost after falling off the bridge.... And he was also the soldier that blocked Tifa from entering the reactor...
Now the things that happened in the reactor... some were Zack's memories... I'm guessing Zack told him about that stuff... but the second time in the reactor... it was all Cloud... Zack was defeated and Tifa got hit across the chest... the last was Cloud... he came in and Carried Tifa off to the side and she told him "So you did come"... When Cloud was explaining this in Kalm he said he was confused about why she said that... (He had mixed memories at the time and didnt really know)
So the person that defeated Sephiroth was... DUN DUN DUN ...CLoud! (Not Zack...) Some people get mixed up about that... =P After that... Cloud fainted and whatever... and the whole, "getting tested on by Hojo" started...
Wootz... ^_~ Get it? =D
im bored so i thought id post; Good explanation ^^ *clap*
?Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix
Huh? explain please
Zack = girlfriend of : Aeris
Cloud = messed up
Zack + Cloud + Whole Nibelheim incident + Zack dying = Cloud + Zack's memories
But Cloud <> Having memory of Aeries
As Zack's memories <> Everything, rather Zack's memories = What he told Cloud
E=mc2
There is no signature here. Move along.
My brain hurts...Zack = girlfriend of : Aeris
Cloud = messed up
Zack + Cloud + Whole Nibelheim incident + Zack dying = Cloud + Zack's memories
But Cloud <> Having memory of Aeries
As Zack's memories <> Everything, rather Zack's memories = What he told Cloud
E=mc2
EDIT: good expaination though
Explain which? I'll just explain both.?
A few people have thought that Cloud has all of Zack's memories and that he gained them through the ordeal in the basement of the Sin Ra mansion, perhaps through an experiment. But Cloud doesnt know everything Zack knows, as proven by the fact that Cloud doesnt recognize Aerith. He may have been told about Aerith by Zack, but of course he wouldnt know her just by looking at her. He may figure that out later, and his attraction to her may even be, in part, because of that. Not neccesarily so, but it could be.
To sum it up: Cloud only knows what Zack told him.
Aerith was Zack's girlfriend. A hint lies in Cloud's first meeting with Aerith, when she talks about her boyfriend who was in SOLDIER (this isnt in the church, but further down the line and still in Midgar). Aerith is reminded of Zack when she sees Cloud. Absolute proof is given if you visit Zack's parents in Gongoga with Aerith in your party.
I like to think that Zack and Aerith are reunited in death and live...er... exist happily ever after,
If it's been such a long time since you've played the game, why are you asking this?
Anyway, after Sephiroth was thrown into the mako at the Nibelheim Reactor(roughly 5 years before the beginning of the game), Hojo took Zack and Cloud and started experimenting on them(as shown by Hojo's notes found in the Shinra Mansion). Zack had no reaction to the Jenova cell injections, but Cloud did. On disc 3, go to the basement of the Shinra Mansion to see a flashback that shows this. Anyway, Zack finally helped Cloud escape, and they went off to Midgar. Somewhere along the way, Cloud gets a change of Zack's clothes(I don't remember exactly how). Anyway, while Zack's helping him across the continent, Cloud was still really messed up/sick along the way. Anyway, finally Hojo's goons catch up with them, and Zack's killed, and Cloud takes his sword.
His mind was still so messed up from the Jenova cell injections that his brain couldn't recognize the difference between his own memories and his memories of other people(especially Zack). That's where the confusion started. Eventually, he came to believe that he actually was in SOLDIER. This was aided by his own feelings of inadequacy and guilt.
MistaCloud: they communicated by "writing" on the tubes, I believe.
Hmm...writing in the tubes eh?? That would make most sense i guess....
And I'll explain a bit more...
After they escaped they hitched a ride on a yellow truck... they were heading toward Midgar... Cloud was actually a HUGE burden on Zack since he was all... yeah. Messed up... Anyway... Zack found some clothes and changed Cloud.. they arent really Zacks Clothes...
While on the truck Zack was talking to CLoud... all the things that Zack said THEN AND THERE is most of the things Cloud absorbed... and thats what he bacame... Thats when Zack also said he had a girlfriend back in Midgar... Thats all he said... Cloud wouldnt know how Aeris looked like that... he didnt share Zacks memories or anything...
After that... i'm guessing they travelled on boat to junon... there they prolly got caught and were chased down to the outskirts of Midgar... There Zack got shot up really bad and Cloud left for dead....
This is where my own theory comes into play...
I think the guy in that tube... is Zack... since the man outside the tube said that he was found on the outskirts of midgar... since Zack was injected with JENOVA cells and Mako that would make him very durable and hard to kill... so thats what i think...
ALSO.... i read about someone saying that Zack didnt get affected by JENOVA cells.... actually Cloud was supposed to be the one that wasnt affected.... thats why Hojo called him a failure... he was the one who wasnt supposed to be effected... BUT... IMO... i think that Cloud was effected by JENOVA, but instead of reaching his potential in a short time... his potential would be reached slower than others but the end result would be greater than that of a normal person... basically i think the strength from the J cells would effect him slower but in the end stronger... ^_~ Make sense?
Thats why he was the only one that made it to the reunion... he was (in the end) the strongest... out of all of them....
Perhaps Cloud is ... schizophrenic ???
JENOVA cells make a person hard to kill, but being shot point blank in the head multiple times is more than enough to do the job. Not to mention that the man in the tube had a number tattoo, and Cloud didnt, so it's not too far of a stretch to assume that Zack didnt, either.
Yeah, imagine the end of Resident Evil 3 and replace Nemesis with Zack.
I'll just throw in my two cents here. JENOVA cells have the ability to change one's appearance as well as one's thoughts and memories. When Cloud met Tifa in Midgar after Zack died, what was left of his consciousness remember his want to impress Tifa and be this person that he wanted to be. The JENOVA cells reacted to that, and made him a SOLDIER. It gave him the strength of a SOLDIER, the mako eyes, and in this process it put the memories of Zack, a SOLDIER, in place of Cloud's own memories because those were the memories of a SOLDIER, which the JENOVA cells made him be. So I think that when Cloud is having Zack's memories, he isn't doing it on purpose, the JENOVA cells are making him do it, and Cloud actually believes that these are his memories. So basically everything TheAbominatrix said but with JENOVA cells invoking the whole mess.
Since we are throwing around theories here, I throw this one out. Now, the threat from the sky, i.e. Jenova, caused a crater that the earth is trying to fix. It's been there for a few millenia and the earth still hasn't fixed it. Why is it taking so long??? Because that's not all the earth is trying to fix. It is also trying to rid itself of JENOVA, until recently. So the earth is using the lifestream to rid itself of JENOVA. JENOVA must either multiply at a steady rate or be rather resiliant to have lasted for so long. So take this down to a smaller scale. To ward off a JENOVA cell, one would need the lifestream, or mako energy. So think of mako energy as like medicine for JENOVA cells. Now, normally when one takes medicine, one already has the systems of the illness. You take the medicine, the symptoms continue until the medicine kicks in, if it even works. However, if you have taken the medicine before hand, i.e. a vaccine or preventative medicine, then your body is ready for the illness before the illness is even there, and it can ward it off without symptoms. So, this is why I believe that Zack was unaffected by the JENOVA cells. He was infused with mako energy to make him a SOLDIER, so in essence he had taken the vaccine for JENOVA cells. It's not said that Cloud is treated with both JENOVA cells and mako (Hojo's notes only say JENOVA cells), but he probably was. So Cloud was given the medicine either shortly beforehand or afterwards, apparently not long enough to properly fend off the JENOVA cells. And who knows if it was even enough to do so in the first place. But what saved Cloud from the same fate as the rest of the Sephiroth clones was Tifa. When he saw Tifa, what was left of his consciousness triggered a reaction with the JENOVA cells to make him into the person that he became. Otherwise, he would have just stayed the way he was and one day wondered off to the north crater like the rest of them. When he falls into the lifestream the first time and receives mako poisoning, he kind of like he was heavily injected with the medicine for JENOVA cells. So when they finally finished working and Tifa helped him find his consciousness again, he was himself again. Notice that from here on through the game he no longer experiences any voices or meetings with himself or headaches of any kind. This is just they way I see things though.
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