Yes, it's truly horrible. The death toll is somewhere around 122.000 now. Man, I can't even imagine such an amount of people being dead :/
My neighbour is in Thailand right now. She was at a beach in Phuket when the tsunami came. She's a tough lady though, she grabbed a floating madrass and was carried by the wave 1 km (little less than a mile, I think) on it. :o
Divinity, I know that others have responded to you in this thread, and that your understanding of the situation is different to others, but I really must respond to your comments.Originally Posted by Divinity
As others have said, people in countries such as Thailand rely on tourism to sustain their economy, fragile as it may be. Having studied tourist spots, I doubt very much that the local government of various countries would allow tourist resorts to be set up in the middle of Thai slums, as that would serve merely to discourage tourism. I have friends who have been to Thailand, Africa, Vietnam, and many other places, and let me tell you; it is extremely hard facing those in poverty. How do you pick your battles? Sure, you can give money to ten people on the street, but eventually you will run out of money, and then what will you do?
How can you feel bad about the local people who have died, but not pity other people whose lives are just as valuable? Every person who has died is somebody's friend, child, partner, etc, and the death toll, although around 152,000 is far from done.
My heart's on my sleeve ...
At this time of year , surrounded with gifts and other material possessions ,it's especially easy to take what you have for granted ie. social security , income , individual political freedom etc. and to forget that thousands of others in the world may not be so fortunate to enjoy such priveleges ...
The recent catastrophe which has ravaged the coastlines of Southern Asia and claimed thousands upon thousands of innocent lives serves as a violent wakeup call to anyone immersed in the " buy , buy , buy " commercialism which seems to dominate the festive period and a strong reminder of all the pain and suffering throughout the world , due to war , famine , drought and in this case , natural disaster. It is a reminder of how priveleged and secure we in the Western world seemingly are , and ultimately , a chilling reminder of man's mortality in the face of Mother Nature's wrath.
Perhaps mankind is atoning for it's sins in some way , the apathists speculate whenever life is lost on such a massive scale ... given the widespread devastation and harrowing tragedy we have seen over the past few days , some may be inclined to agree. Yet , I think , that just for one minute , were everyone to put aside their gifts , switch off the TV and stop whatever they're doing , just to spare a thought towards the soul-destroying loss of life , the grief of millions ,and ultimately , come to the realization of just how fortunate we are to be living with such privelege on a daily basis ... then perhaps I , personally , could find some comfort in knowing that everyone in the civilized world were united together , in a universal cause for the welfare of those in the ravaged parts of the world.
I sincerely hope that everyone , of any political/philosophical persuasion has at least a shred of compassion and generosity in their heart , towards making donations in support of this noble cause ...
Thank you.
Last edited by Itsunari 2000; 12-31-2004 at 11:09 PM.
Also, Rye made a thread in general chat noting various charities who are accepting donations. Please spare a little of your Christmas loot and give generously to this cause.
I think blowing up 100,000++ people just to avenge the 9/11 is like killing an ant with an axe.
5 million people have been left foodless and homeless.Thats almost as bad as the 125,000 people dead.
Can't argue that ideology. Besides, I doubt the terrorists are going to squash the beef with America and its allies, and give us a hand with the whole ordeal if we do help them. It's sad, but true.
I think blowing up 100,000++ people just to avenge the 9/11 is like killing an ant with an axe.
Im just saying that we are going to spend money if we are going to win this damn war. Plus, Bush said that giving 35 million dollors was just the beginning of the money we are going to send if i listened to the news correctly.
Last edited by wakka; 12-31-2004 at 01:28 AM.
You know, natural disasters tend to kill a lot, but we as humans destroy much more life. Haulocost (sp brain not thinking today) = 6 million.
Stalin sent 20 million to death
Iraq War - 100,000+ innocent civilians of iraq
Though this is a great tragedy, perhaps we as a people should reflect back on how much we destroy.
I'd like to ask your opinion: I would like to donate something for helping people, but right now I really don't have much money (well, I mean, I am not working, but studying, meaning I only get a little cash for my parents to buy a book or two, nothing more). What exactly could I do asides from giving money? I do have some free time on weekends (Well, I'll have in february, cause exams are coming soon).
Oh, by the way, nice post, Captain.
Anyway, and now comes another thing to think about: dosen't it feel bad to help sometimes? Everytime I give money to a beggar or something along those lines, I feel horrible. I don't feel like a good person giving charity to a person who asks for help, but like a heartless bastard that needs to do such thing to clean his bad class conscience. Ironically, I don't feel good at all doing it, because in the moment I may start feeling good about giving charity, I feel like a total asshole because I realize I am buying my good conscience for an euro. Sometimes I help people simply for good will, but as soon as the idea of feeling better with myself by doing this crosses my mind, I soon start self-torturing myself with the feeling I am actually being a selfish bastard. And I question myself if it was really good will or an unconscious selfish action. Makes me feel like crap. And I can't help it.
Also, on another note but in a somehow related issue, how do you feel about the media coverage? Because I can say I absolutely hate the TV for the way they are covering the issue. It's not only this, it has been building up for ages, and it's the fact that such a sensationalistic style is given to the facts, to a point the actual problem seems to be dissolved, blurred, in front of shocking images of corpses piling up in beaches. It almost feels as if people are meant to obtain some sadistic pleasure over it, and it really irks me. They way it is focused- so many images, so many deaths- dosen't actually give you a perspective of the magnitude of the tragedy, but some kind of sick feeling of vanalization, the fact they try to impress you but fall into some Hollywood style image. It feels like a small tragedy- nothing to worry about, it wont get to us- it's far away, it covers of minimmum corpses distant territories, of tragedies we cannot see in the distance. That is how it feels, it has been sensationalised in such a way it's hard to really feel it, because it feels like fiction. However, when it hits close home, it feels different, if it happens in a place you have seen, then you go like "crap, it could have been me". It's how I felt the 11th of March after the bombs in Madrid, or- in a less degree- on the 9/11 (because I had visited New York). However, this feels so distant, it's places I have never visited, people I have never met, and so it makes it look like some fiction, like it's not really happening, even if it is. Argh, I feel like crap. Does anyone share this with me? I wonder if I am becoming insensibilized, and that worries me...however I feel I am not alone.
When I found out about what happened, I felt like bursting into tears for all those poor people. I don't believe they deserved it. There are rumours going around my neighborhood that it is the beginning of the tribulation, which is the Christian phropesy (Don't know if I spelled it right) of the end of the world and where Christ comes back. *I don't know if it's true, but it kinda wierds me out to think about it* reason why is because it states that earthquakes and such are supposta happen in wierd places, which in thier opinion, is India and the other places. And this is the biggest one yet. a 9.0 and killing about 180,000 innocent people. Sad.
SN, you make some very good and profound points.
First off, I empathize completely with your feeling toward giving to charity, but realize that you are not doing it for yourself, to make yourself a better person, but because you are trying to help others. At least, I HOPE that's the reason... I kid.
When you give to charity, you are giving a piece of yourself, whether it's money you have, possessions you own, or time itself, and that in it's own way can be far greater even in small doses then doing nothing at all. If you don't have enough money, but have some time, see if you can volunteer locally somewhere, where they're organizing supplies to be sent to help those in need, or even, to help at a local soup kitchen. Something I fear greatly is that while this disaster is making headlines, the local troubles will be swept under the carpet and we'll turn a blind eye to our own poor and less fortunate, so working to help those folk as well is just as noble a duty in my mind.
As for the media, it is what it is. In this day and age, we, meaning the masses want access to everything. We want to be shocked and appalled because it makes us watch longer. It's a double edged sword because while it can de-sensitize us to the horrors of this situation, it also can mobilize us by letting us know it is in fact happening and thus we can hopefully react and do something about it. Media will always be giving us this very problem as the more we see and know, the less we'll be shocked by it, but hopefully, the better prepared and knowledgable we'll be to help and remedy the given situation.
Take care all.
I agree. Captain, I agree with that. SN, You are a wonderful person. And I mean it.
This disaster has taken its toll on many lives. It's awful to hear that tens of thousands have lost their lives, and it's very hard for me to comprehend that so many people have died. It's so horrible when something like this happens.
I've donated some money to the Red Cross so that I could in some way help those who are suffering. I've also prayed for the souls of the victims and their families, and I hope that there won't be any more victims, although it seems there will be, because each day new bodies are found and many of people are still missing.
I would've written more, but the Captain summed up pretty much everything I had in mind with his posts. I'm just so shocked about all of this. Take care, all.
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I totally agree
I gasped when i read divinty's comment about not having pity for the tourists, i read your (divinity) other posts about how people can go there and stuff and i was like ok i disagree but its your opinion its fine by me but as soon as i saw the words "i dont have pity" for those who were tourists i just felt bad...you seriously made me feel horrible about that comment....so if a friend of yours would go there and God forbid die there would you say meh.... poor locals? i hopefully dont think so...a life is a life people strive for equality here and clearly you have no regard for it...the death toll has reached above 125,000 and though i am sad about this i only ask you respect the people of those whose lives were taken that day locals or not...just thank goodness that it might have been someone you loved...
[Life is Eternity in a nutshell]
Well, serously, this thing is making me kind of sick. That post I wrote last night is completly sincere, as is the one I am writing now:
How can I be at peace with myself in front of such thing? I do not mean only this Asian disaster, because when you come to think about it, this horrible tsunami isn't really that big...not considering the fact half of Africa is starving to death, and has been starving to death for years. Not considering slavery in east Europe with those poor inmigrant being sent to our Europe, including my damn country, to get exploited as prostitutes. Not considering companies (multinational and local) are using child labour in inhumane conditions, that prostitutes in India are forced to live in 2x2 meters room through all their life, that life is really worth nothing. It is not only about this tsunami, indeed a horrible disaster, it is not about 9/11 or about this or that earthquake. It's not like this disasters the media talks so much about are ruining our fantastic utopia, because in the long run and once you think about, this corpses transformed into numbers, this anonymous orphans are just a molecule in a gigantic body of corruption. What I can't stand, what really pisses me off, is to turn on TV while for 20 minutes my head is bombed by multiple mind-numbling advertisments, and feel anger towards it, because simply to know that wealthy countries can attempt to create such a ridiculous bubble of smiling faces on the TV screen as some veil to uncover reality really pisses me off, to the point where I really ask myself...isn't it us, the proud wealthy ones, the ones who deserve a disaster? Sure, someone could tell me no one deserves that..yeah, I can say I agree, but there is something we cannot deny, and it is that none of us is innocent.
This reminds me to a little documentary I saw in TV about Guantanamo. There was this ex-Al Quaeda member who left the group after the attacks on the WTC. He asked his father, "Why are we slaying all those people? What have they ever done to us?". And the father replied "They pay taxes to the US goverment, and the US goverment wastes them in weapons, with this weapons they kill people". Well...how can you actually deny the words of the father? He was right, it really is like this...of course, I don't think those people deserved death because of that, but what he said is undeniable.
It's not really our fault, after all. How can I be blamed of being born in the "developed" countries? I realise I am guilty, I realise I am participating in this. For everything I buy, for everything I consume, I am guilty. I am feeding corrupt entities, corrupt goverments and companies, that perpetuate this order of corruption. So, I can try to avoid buying Coca-Cola because they are a bunch of bastards, I can boicot Nike, or McDonald's, but let's be serious, even if you can attempt to reduce it, it is impossible, while living in this world, to avoid being part of it.
Or I could just be like Paul Gauguin and leave to Tahiti. Actually, it's what I'd like to do. Hurray for Hölderlin.
And I am getting off topic. Yeah, anyway, that's all I can say. I'm sorry if I felt someone feel like me.
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