Spoilers about Zanarkand ubication

[Wilder]

I have to say it, I have to say it !... I Saw the Blitzball FMV again and I noticed something very weird , Sin is absorbing everything , then when you are falling like in a dream (with that o - go down that still don´t know for what is it) you can see that strange mark that jecht have in his chest, the same on fire that you see in the last fight ( some relations about that mark?),he say father ?and bla bla bla , is pretty obvious that´s is the scene from the last fight .
Tidus is actually sucked up by sin, I mean, Sin is actually trowing tidus out of his body and that explain all that weird stuff about Sin being a portal between spira and dream zanarkand .
Later in the game we find that the way to beat sin is getting inside of it , And what we we find inside ?, Jecht, the mark of fire , And actually the dream zanarkand !, THE DREAM ZANARKAND IS INSIDE OF SIN. I´ve think about it and it make sense, The faith were pushed to dream forever a Zanarkand, and sin is forever, so, the only way that the faith stop dreaming is defeating sin . What about all that methaphora about never returning to zanarkand , At the end it happens in the last fight with jecht. I also tought that the ball of water that destroy zanarkand isn´t really the body of sin , something like the spirit with another image,I´m going to push it to expeculation and say that tha ball of water was jecht with the form of braska aeon, and you Can´t say , That´s not true !, because is very difficult to see, and my argument is ... well, the otherworld song in both intro and jecht fight ? , And yes, Auron say "We call it Sin", But, Jecht is already sin so... that explain it all. what about Sauron riding sin ?,dont you mean GETTING IN ?. What about sin being an armor , an armor in wich yevon could live in zanarkand forever. Why they took the chosen one´s from that zanarkand , why jecht , why tidus, ohhh i forgot, the only way to beat sin is from the inside right ?. You can also say that "the hymn of faith , very related to the ruins of zanarkand with the name of "returning to zanarkand" is only realted because jecht is inside of sin, no way, the whole zanarkand is inside of sin and that is why the song is so effective, Is in some dialogue, some about zanarkand living forever in this song. If Zanarkand isn´t inside sin, where is it ?, because say "Zanarkand never sleeps" and say "Sin never stop" is something very obvious.
All this answer a question that I had, The calm period of 10 years between braska Summoning ends just right when Jecht atack dream zanarkand ? (in The Blitzball FMV), in that moment Sin awakes in spira again ?, because if that´s correct Dream zanarkand is like frozen , with jecht in the plattform , and that´s why ject is already inside of sin, zanarkand inside of sin, and jecht and tidus don´t meet until tidus is throw out of zanarkand, Jecht was waiting tidus to be ready , so he could awake in the right moment.
what do you think ?, I´m searching for more arguments, I´ve never seen anybody telling this in any post so I think this is some good point to discuss. Throw the opinions NOW !

[ShivaBlizzard8]

Hmmm. . . the dream existing inside of Sin would make sense, giving it a physical place and adding to the ability of Sin to travel between the two locations. Also, it would work if the fayth dreaming Zanarkand were made into Sin, then that location makes sense.

It also would explain something I've always wondered about - why the image of Sin sleeping is its own FMV. Why bother? Perhaps it was a clue? I don't know, but it sounds like a good theory to me. Sin dies=dream Zanarkand gone.

[Lon611]

when sin dies it doesn't mean dream zanarkand is gone. they would have to (SPOILER)defeat yu yevon, the greatest summoner who is summoning zanarkand, which they did.

its a very interesting theory. in fact, when sin starts to disentegrate over bevelle, you can actually see what appears to be some sort of building on top of his head. i kno its not inside, but everytime i see that fmv, im 100% positive its a building.

very interesting if jecht was infact the body of water attacking zanarkand, because if u think deeply about the story, it was more jechts story than nething else. he's the one who orchestrated everything, and who really wanted to end the dreaming of the fayth. what better way then to attack dream zanarkand and FORCE tidus to start his journey?

also, inside sin, it sort of looks like a weird type of star trek scenery; like everything is sort of advanced technology, kind of like how zanarkand was the great machina city. also, wasn't there a "tower of the dead"(?) i think its called inside sin?well, the ppl of zanarkand are dead. then again, it could just be where the dead go once they were killed by sin. i think it shows that after operation mi'hen all the dead soldiers walking around. i don't kno. i wanna hear more tho

[Wilder]

well lon66 , to kill sin you got to kill Yevon, It´s the same, so , when sin dies, so does yevon. I also saw that bunch of buildings on sin , but I didn´t related with anything (Busy trying not to be killed), thanks, that give strenght to the theory. I want to relate the dialogues to find out who is that masked kid hat is called "the faith" trought the game, I found that he says "don´t cry no more" a lot to tidus , just like Jecht does, Could this kid be some chracter that we already know ?, I dont swallow that thing of "rebelious Faith" o "we are tired of dream", but well . Keep give the opinion about zanarkand.

[bakabakabaka]

i agree about zanarkand being in sin. it makes sense..
(SPOILER)arn't the faith the dead of zanarkand??? so they keep the dream of it alive IN sin. and yu yevon keeps them in sin.... i'm confused....
(SPOILER)so whent the final aeon is summoned...that person becomes part of the dream??? and fuels sin??
i don't really know what i'm saying...

[rubah]

Wilder-- Yevon did not die when you killed Sin. He can exist without it, which is how he keeps living even though Sin is killed by the final summoning over and over.

The little kid is just a fayth(bahamut's, actually) that was deemed as a messanger boy. In ffx-2 (SPOILER) he shows up to yuna several times, like at right before the perfect ending, to tell her that they'll think of a way to bring tidus back

Dream Zanarkand doesn't have a physical location as far as I'm concerned. It's a *dream*.

Most likely Jecht modeled his Sin after what he remembered, because it's what he remembered. Making it a replica of a memory, not the thing itself. Because the thing itself doesn't exist in our dementions-- it's out there in the fourth or fifth one I guess

If Dream Zanarkand was inside Sin, the party would've found all of Dream Zanarkand-- the other blitzball teams, the families, the stupid announcer that was going to run away from home before Jecht disappeared.

The reason you have to get inside Sin is because its outer armor is too strong to be defeated from without. That's why all the ordinary tactics of warfare-- chocobo knights, machina, etc appear to just bounce off of it.

the ball of water that sin used to destroy the first zanarkand was just . . . water. . .

What you really should be wondering about is first off: how did jecht become the only one that was picked up by Sin when it made a random trip to dream zanarkand ten years ago? didn't anyone else go with him? (it makes it sound like jecht is the real main character, and this was his destiny: not his story, but just his destiny), then how long was Auron in Dream Zanarkand, and how did he convince tidus and his mom that he was a friend of Jecht's (well, she was in considerable distress, so I'm sure she would've accepted anyone that said that and was friendly enough)

about the songs: Otherworld was played when the first bonds with the Dream Zanarkand began to break, and when the last ones were broken. IE, when Sin showed up. All it was was a reverse foreshadowing about Sin being Jecht, who was a man from an OtherWorld (in the words of Maechan)

I really doubt that if the dream zanarkand was a physical place that the hymn of the fayth would be heard. It was hard enough to hear it just through Sin's armor.

(back to the city inside sin, it could just be an apparatition of pyreflies with tidus' thoughts, or possibly with yevon or jecht's. They do that sort of thing. )

I'm sure if Dream Zanarkand was a physical place Cid would've added a spot to the airship saying 'omgomgomg IT"S ZANARKAND LIKE IT WAS 1000 YEARS AGO! omgomgomg!'

[Lon611]

borisnono, the fayth that are summoning dream zanarkand are NOT inside sin, but are on the wall just before zanarkand on mt. gagazet.

after thinking aobut it, i don't think dream zanarkand is a physical place, or else it wouldn't be DREAM zanarkand, now would it? :rolleyes2
i believe its in another dimension or something sci-fi like that, lol. some1 in another thread said things summoned(ie dream zanarkand) HAD to be summoned in spira, but i don't recall nething about taht, so it could be in another dimension or something. plus, yu yevon IS the greatest summoner who ever lived, so i bet he'd figure out a way.

plus, i doubt yu yevon would create a physical dream zanarkand, otherwise it could get destroyed, jst like the first one did

[Wilder]

ok Rubah, I´m gonna try to explain some of the points that you wrote , and try to give my point of view.

- I know that yevon can´t die before sin, I said that you supossed that if sin is dead , yevon is also dead.
- I haven´t play FFX-2 so, if there´s an explanation fot this kid ,Im
lost.
- ok let´s begin wih zanarkand. I didn´t say that Zanarkand have a PSYSICAL location , I know it´s a dream , I know it doesn´t exist anymore. But the dream is being develope inside of sin , Sin is like Yevon sanctuary along his zanarkand.
- I don´t know what you mean with " because it's what he remembered", Ok, If jecht appears in the last battle in a replica of zanarkand there could be 2 options : He is in the "dream zanarkand" , or he is in a replica that he dreamed himself , I mean, what´s the most logical for you ?. For me is more logical to say that Sin is a bridge between spira and zanarkand because there´s only one World , that´s is spira , And sin who is living in spira carries zanarkand inide, or , Sin is an ultra galatic speed light monster that can travel to the fourth or fith dimension.
- the party were not into sin vacation trip , actually, you can see Zanarkand all the way down when Jecht morph into braska aeon, there´s a FMV and all the lights of zanarkand are turned on. If you remember very well, The Faith freeze all the people in zanarkand at the beginning , there was no more active life in zanarkand since the disaster , and it was turned into this world with Jecht in the big plaform that you can see in the first (o-go down) dream scene , in that scene you can see for last time zanarkand, that´s very clear I think.
- You are right, Sin´s armor is very strong, but they were breaking it with that canon Lolll. Actually this is the first thing that you wrote " Yevon did not die when you killed Sin. He can exist without it, which is how he keeps living even though Sin is killed by the final summoning over and over ". That explains to you why they have to get inside, to kill yevon, not because sin armor , they don´t want only to kill Sin actually since they discover all the true about yu yevon.
- Just water ?, you mean that´s is normal in your neighborhood, A giant ball of water spitting balls of fire. I said that it was Jecht with the aeon braska because It would have been so obvious if jecht appears like he is, he would have been recognized, You can´t see what is inside , but there´s something inside. And since Aeon braska is a fire dude the balls of fire that destroy everything make some sense.Hey , look !, Auron says, we called it sin . Obiously isn´t just water.
- Well. how jecht get involved ,that´s not explained in the game , the only thing that is now for sure is that when Jecht was launched to spira ther was no atack to zanarkand !, no balls of water, he just dissapear as the guy in the beginning commentary said. that means that maybe he was trow by mistake ?, Luck ?, destiny ?, whtever, The true is that The only reason why Tidus is launched ouside of spira is because jecht planned it, and if the Dream Zanrkand is inside sin as jecht , that make a good point to reinforce the theory.
- I just relate Otherwold with Jecht, the two times that I heard that song in one was jecht and in the first I think there he is ( Sin being Jecht, who was a man from an OtherWorld ) . And "return to Zanarkand" , You should have been so dristracted when jecht said "I can´t hear the hymn so clear now because I´m becoming Sin while the time goes on"(or something like that), and what about "Zanarkand lives in the song"?.

Ok I repeat, Zanarkand is not a physical place where you can go, Is a dream that is being developed in side of sin, and you discover that only in the last minutes of the game , like a conclusion to the mistery. Thanks a lot for your comments.

[Cloud man 1989]

HA nice theory I like it

[ShivaBlizzard8]

1. Yeah, I think that what Wilder meant was that unless you defeat Yu Yevon, Sin doesn't really die at all, so when Sin really dies, the dream is destroyed.

2. Yes, the physical bodies of the fayth are on Gagazet, but Yevon originally used their souls to create the armor that originally made Sin (before all this final Aeon business). However, those bodies, encased in rock, are hardly alive even before Sin is destroyed. Therefore their consciousness, which is creating the dream, would be a part of Sin, no?

3. If the fayth's consciousnesses are a part of Sin, then their dream would technically come from "inside" Sin. That doesn't mean its a physical location, but it emenates from there.

4. I do reacall seeing the city on top of Sin's head, and thought it was really odd. I have no idea what that's all about, but I don't think its dream Zanarkand.

5. Jecht was called out by the fayth, most likely, in hope that he could help the Spirans defeat Sin. When he failed, Auron gave his son a try.

6. I dunno, I just think that the dream coming from inside Sin would explain why Sin could enter the dream - they both emenate from the same set of consciousnessees.

Okay, that was confusing. Sorry.

[Sir Bahamut]

1) Dream Zanarkan is NOT inside Sin!!
I mean, in the beginning, Sin attacks Dream Zanarkand, and if DZ had been inside himself, that wouldn't make any sense!

2) Dream Zanarkand IS a physical location just like Tidus is a "physical person". Yu Yevon made DZ out of pyreflies, like a gigantic Aeon, so you could consider DZ as a massive Aeon.
I mean, if Tidus is readily seen and touched, then obviously the rest of DZ can be touched. Tidus himself could be considered the equivalent of Bahamuts big toe.

3) The town you see inside Sin is NOT Dream Zanarkand, or else, as someone else pointed out, you should see all the people hanging around. The Dead City inside Sin is merely a result of Jecth's memories of DZ. Since the pyreflies react to thoughts and memories(like in the Farplane) they formed the thing Jecht was thinking about the most.

4) The buildings on top of Sin are probably wreckage from towns he wrecked in the past.

5) All that is confirmed by the FFX Ultimania Omega Guide. For those who don't know what that is, it's the official Square Strategy guide which also includes lots of information about the storyline.

I recommend reading this excellent FAQ:

http://faqs.ign.com/articles/432/432338p1.html

[Lon611]

ok, wilder. the "kid" is just a regular fayth that is sort of the messenger of the other fayth and tries to help the characters defeat Sin. he keeps repeating "youll cry, you always cry" as sort of a foreshadow to both jecht and the final scene when jecht (SPOILER)dies.

and shiva, i don't think it was so much "jecht failed, so auron let his son try." yes, jecht couldn't stop the rebirth, but i think after Jecht became Sin, he completely understood wat was going on and figured that if he "helped" so to speak his son, they could stop the rebirth. but auron wasn't really a part of the original plan, I THINK. wasn't he just supposed to look after Tidus?neways, i remember auron saying something like he tried to take Tidus to spira, but couldn't find a way or something. and so he gave up, but he figured it out once Jecht/Sin attack Dream Zanarkand that day, and decided, along with Jecht's guidance, that he would finally take him to Spira.

*gasps for air* Cheers to s-e for making confusing, philosophical, brain-buster plots *raises glass*

[ShivaBlizzard8]

That's an awesome FAQ - thanks for posting it!

However, after reading it, it would seem to support that the DZ IS inside Sin. It doesn't exist on any other wierd plane, it is an Aeon that's in Spira, but cannot be found or reached or seen in any way. It is being summoned by Yevon from inside Sin.

So its a physical place - Auron still needed to find Sin to enter it, correct? So its a giant Aeon - where is this Aeon if not inside Sin? So Sin appears in DZ - the DZ is a creation of Yevon who is Sin - when we dream, don't we sometimes appear in our own dreams? Haven't you ever seen yourself in one? They are places where wierd things like that can happen. If the physical manifestation of Sin has nothing to do with the physical manifestation of DZ, then why is he necessary to travel between the dream and Spira? Where is Sin going to take Jecht, Auron, and Tidus between worlds, if the DZ exists in Spira? Wouldn't it make more sense for this pyrefly Aeon to exist somewhere inside Sin itself? You'd think it would be hard for a planet to not stumble across a giant dream city.

and shiva, i don't think it was so much "jecht failed, so auron let his son try." yes, jecht couldn't stop the rebirth, but i think after Jecht became Sin, he completely understood wat was going on and figured that if he "helped" so to speak his son, they could stop the rebirth. but auron wasn't really a part of the original plan, I THINK. wasn't he just supposed to look after Tidus?neways, i remember auron saying something like he tried to take Tidus to spira, but couldn't find a way or something. and so he gave up, but he figured it out once Jecht/Sin attack Dream Zanarkand that day, and decided, along with Jecht's guidance, that he would finally take him to Spira.

Well, Auron completely understood what was going on after Jecht became sin as well. That's why he ws killed by Yunalesca; he confronted her telling her the whole Final Aeon thing was a farce. With that knowledge, he journeyed to DZ, under a promise to look after Tidus. I think eventually he wantede to return to Spira to use his knowledge to defeat Sin for good and prevent this endless cycle. He wanted to take Tidus because he could look after him that way, but it didnt' work. Finally, Tidus got older, and Auron figured he's be a good candiate to help, I guess.

[Sir Bahamut]

However, after reading it, it would seem to support that the DZ IS inside Sin. It doesn't exist on any other wierd plane, it is an Aeon that's in Spira, but cannot be found or reached or seen in any way. It is being summoned by Yevon from inside Sin.

So its a physical place - Auron still needed to find Sin to enter it, correct? So its a giant Aeon - where is this Aeon if not inside Sin?

Uhh, if you take a look at the FFX map you'll quickly notice many places it could be. Underwater for instance, protected by a big bubble.
Or on top of Mount Gagazet, where the Airship never went, or couldn't reach. it could be on an island far into the ocean, where no one has ever been.

You have to remember that just 'cause you have an Airship, doesn't mean Cid and co can take the time to cruise around the entire world, so it's not likely they'd find DZ if it was at all hidden away from major cities, which it obviously would be.

The FAQ doesn't actually support that it is inside Sin, it only says it's a physical location, that can be seen just like we can see the Aeons.

So Sin appears in DZ - the DZ is a creation of Yevon who is Sin - when we dream, don't we sometimes appear in our own dreams? Haven't you ever seen yourself in one? They are places where wierd things like that can happen

Yeah, but Sin wasn't dreaming. He was visiting DZ like he visited other cities. But anyway, if DZ is a physical place, and Sin is obviously a physical thing, then it doesn't make sense for Sin to attack DZ if DZ is inside himself. I mean, if the entire physical citiy was located inside him, attacking it(forgetting about the illogical assumption that he could go inside himself) wouldn't it be harming himself?

And since DZ is a physical place, and a huge one too, how come all we see inside Sin is a broken down, dead shadow of the old Zanarkand?
Yu Yevon is still summoning DZ when we are inside Sin, so why should it appear differently than when we see Tidus there in the beginning?

If the physical manifestation of Sin has nothing to do with the physical manifestation of DZ, then why is he necessary to travel between the dream and Spira? Where is Sin going to take Jecht, Auron, and Tidus between worlds, if the DZ exists in Spira?

You ignore the technological situation of Spira at the time when DZ is around. Look at their boats, only the Al Bheds have anything capable of going out to sea properly, most others live in tatty wooden villages due to Sin. No one can build up good technology because Sin comes and destoys everything every now and then.

So if DZ was far out at sea, or high in the sky, the only way to really get there would be by riding on Sin, who could both swim underwater, and fly. Of course, with more technology, Sin wouldn't be the only way.

Wouldn't it make more sense for this pyrefly Aeon to exist somewhere inside Sin itself? You'd think it would be hard for a planet to not stumble across a giant dream city.

As I explained above, I really can't say it does many any sense at all for DZ to be in Sin, and also that it is unreasonable to think people should have discovered DZ by themselves.

[Lon611]

some1 used this in another thread, so imma bring it up:when u finally defeat yu yevon and send sin, you see the aeons and sin burst into pyreflies. well, isn't dream zanarkand also a summoning?so how come the entire planet can witness sin burst into pyreflies, but something as gigantic as a city cannot be seen?how can it exist?i don't think its a physical place. something else is up. otherwise, why can tidus travel there when he's dreaming on mt. gagazet near the fayth without using sin?