The American goverment is the worst in the world!

[PhoenixAsh]

Temple Knight:
"I'll just wait for Bush to leave office and idiot foreigners to stop basing our country on the actions of one man before I argue anymore."

I do see where you're coming from in general, but I'm not sure thats fair. AMERICA went to war, led by Bush. AMERICA is responsible for pollution to the extent it is. Arguments against Bush's personal mistakes aren't really relevant (apart from a voting problem). You can't just wash your hands of everything America does for eight years just because of the leader.


Endless, I guess this comes down to interpretation of the word worst. As I doubt anyone could question the success of America, I figured this was a moral question. Come to think of it, I guess it's if you think morals should be applied universally.
I really don't keep up with the news enough, but I may aswell show my ignorance. What have France and Germany done that makes them compare to America?

[Teek]

Temple Knight:
"I'll just wait for Bush to leave office and idiot foreigners to stop basing our country on the actions of one man before I argue anymore."

I do see where you're coming from in general, but I'm not sure thats fair. AMERICA went to war, led by Bush. AMERICA is responsible for pollution to the extent it is. Arguments against Bush's personal mistakes aren't really relevant (apart from a voting problem). You can't just wash your hands of everything America does for eight years just because of the leader.

No. *sigh* You're right. I can't. But, all I can say is that I don't support him, I didn't vote for him, and I can't help but feel he is a traitor to everything American. It just infuriates me that people are basing America off of the products of our current administration. For the Patriot Act, our president should have been impeached.

*shrug* This is more me dealing also with other Americans, not just foreigners of socialistic thought. I have to wait for things to change naturally. Thank God (figure of speech) that we have checks and balances.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I keep seeing a lot of "Americ=bad" but not a lot of this little thing I like to call a "reason". That would be some clear-cut reason as to WHY America (which, like all governments in this world, has its faults and strong points) is the worst government in the world. By clear-cut I mean specifics, point by point, so as to leave no doubt in even the most infantile of minds, why your point is correct.

I have yet to see you come anywhere CLOSE to backing up your outrageous statement.

And as far as the war in Iraq, while I don't agree with that in the least bit, I hardly think that America declaring one war is that horrible a thing when you think about the fact that MANY countries have declared wars, not necessarily for just reasons either. The world was relatively peaceful, but come on. World War II wasn't THAT long ago. Countries declare war, it happens, while it might not be just it certainly doesn't constitute them as "the worst country in the world" or "the worst government in the world".

[PhoenixAsh]

What, and if Germany had defended themselves with that argument you'd have patted them on the back for their debating skills? This debate hasn't really been particularly strong either way. Wuggly Blight gave a not unreasonable post, that was only responded to as far as I can remember on one (I'm guessibng joking) line about Bush.

Maybe America doesn't have the worst government in the world. To be honest I don't really agree with the question. But this thread has been going for quite a while now, and maybe we should be moving on from just dealing with the one opinion put forward in the first post.


Temple Knight, I don't think people judge America solely on Bush. Perhaps some do. Hell, perhaps they're right to. But maybe you could explain your stance. You obviously don't agree with Bush, and I don't really know what you do agree with in detail, so who are you defending? Not America as a whole, not America now, and not America exclusively in the past.

This is actually a relatively mature site from what I've seen, and I think discussing America with Americans is a fairly good way to see through negative bias, lets take advantage of this situation rather than try and constantly pick holes in people's arguments trying to prove them wrong.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

I'm mainly addressing Doors with that post.

And as far as the Germany thing, don't be rediculous. America is not led by a racist dictator, I detest Bush and even I am willing to admit this. Declaring a war doesn't make a government suddenly the worst in the world, and that argument is laughable.

[PhoenixAsh]

No declaring a war doesn't make a country the worst in the world. But that is not the sole reason given. Although thinking about it it, the motives a country has for declaring a war may subjectively make it pretty bad on their own.

I only mentioned Germany because you mentioned World War II. Wars just get declared is not a very strong argument even if we were just discussing Iraq.

[theundeadhero]

War was going to happen in the Middle East. It was inevitable. While Bush DID jump the gun, Iraq was breaking enough of it's peace treaty that it was going to happen. You can argue saying that Bush jumped it for personal intentions. It's just as easy to say that those who opposed the war did it for their own personal intentions, not because they were against a war. The whole reason this got out of hand is that our president decided to go against the united nations. No country is required to, and we're, I'm assuming because I don't know for sure, the first to not go with the general sway of UN on such a large scale. If it was any other country for any other reason they would be under the same bias we are now.

[Symphonic]

All I'm going to add to this is that hindsight is 20/20. It's not difficult to look back and see what you should have and should not have done. Every government/country/group of people goes through a bad spot now and again, some more often than others.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

In some cases, yes, the argument is feeble, but in this case I beg to differ. Basically, the creator of the thread is saying that America is the worst government in the world. So far as I can see, he's given a few reasons why he makes such a claim, the Iraq War, George W. Bush (those two can be taken together and are usually reiterated as several different points when in actuality they are not), and the fact that America did not give as much to the tsunami victims as he thinks they should have.

In the case of the war, I am merely stating that declaring a war, even declaring an unjust war, does not by any means make a country the worst in the world. Yes, it may make it less than admirable, but that alone cannot make it the worst in the world.

As has been stated several times by several different people, Bush isn't the country, nor is he the government, he is merely the head of one of the three branches of the American government. Many people (even Americans) seem to overestimate Bush's power, he still needs approval from other government branches to carry out his desires.

And as far as the third point is concerned, take from it what you will, but frankly, giving relief aid isn't REQUISITE, frankly, we have no DUTY to give relief to the tsunami victims. I am not in any way shape or form suggesting that they don't need aid, nor that we shouldn't give them aid, but I'd say people should be more focused on what THEY intend to do rather than what other people are or are not doing.

Frankly, all this discussion reminds me of an old Bible passage. I believe it goes something like this:

"Before you mention the splinter in your neighbor's eye, stop and remove the beam from your own."

I know I butchered that horribly, but in essence what it is saying is that people should look at their own faults before they start whining about the faults they see in someone else. Sound advice I would think.

[Teek]

Temple Knight, I don't think people judge America solely on Bush. Perhaps some do. Hell, perhaps they're right to. But maybe you could explain your stance. You obviously don't agree with Bush, and I don't really know what you do agree with in detail, so who are you defending? Not America as a whole, not America now, and not America exclusively in the past.

...I wrote a freaking essay on the damn thing. xD How much more do you people want?

If you asked me, particularly, what you wanted to hear I'd give it to you, but I already said why America is one of the greatest - I even gave reasons for why I think America is at a downfall. If you'd please direct me to what you want me to answer, I could answer it.

[chaosknight]

*begins singing* America, America god bless the usa...

[Croyles]

goverment is a bad idea. full stops..

[Endless]

Ah, yes, anarchy is known to be better, as the number of peaceful/powerful countries using that system show.


Oh wait.

[XxSephirothxX]

With ignorance comes bush, the largest spinner of international ignorance ever, How can other people take a nation seriously that ELECTS a man so ingorant and stupid he nearly missed self assination by a preztal seriously?

It's called religion. Christianity (among other religions) has led to far worse things than the election of a stupid man, such as the cold-blooded murder or persecution of millions of other people, the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition...the list goes on an on. Sure, some people are just conservative, and may truly believe they're making the right decision. But the Christian right got Bush elected. Right now he has the lowest approval rating of any re-elected president in the last 50 years.

[§håd0w]

Communism is the way it was meant to be. I'm talking true communism, not what has been happening in Cuba and China.