The American goverment is the worst in the world!

[XxSephirothxX]

oh great a ing moron bashes christains. I'm christain thats very offensive my good friend real offensive. Only 3% christains actually say that crap everyone else who is christains doesnt tell people they are going to hell heck they say they aren't in a position to tell people were they are going when they die.

I'll bet money you just made that statistic up.

edit- oh yeah Doors its because the majority in american (caucasins) are somewhat afriad of change and will kill others to keep things the way they are.look at hte civil rights movements in the 1950s.Most of these people weren't even young and they were getting teared gas for peaceful marches and churches bombed during prayers.Heck there was one case were they tried to kill everyone in one church women children men young the elderly.It didnt matter.So you see the reaction the american public had to change.They don't like it.Thats why america pollutes a lot.Also to have a commercial that airs were i live.Well it says "coal electricity its enviromentally friendly."I think to myself (Since when was burning coal friendly to the eviroment).If you look at a statistic of the average human's IQ.Then shoot the average human being isn't even gonna know how to cut on a computer.So that little ad on TV will literally convince them that there is no need for a change in how we use our resources.

....what? I had a lot of trouble understanding just what your point was. And what does this have to do with the government?

[Teek]

Sorry, I just couldnt leave this unanswered.

Me either.

Estonia is a democratic country with nearly the same rights as in the US.

I told you to forget that line. I admitted I was ignorant in the realm of Estonian thought.

Adequate information is better than free press.Most people who hate politicians hate them no matter what and can discuss about them in forums and everyday chatter and clubs.

See, you admit that free speech/press/opinion is valid - the internet is not held by one country and is thus free for all, the way it should be. But, "adequate information" from the government? You need to stop throwing out facts without proof to balance them out.

I didnt say it as an insult.But if you take it so...Then I dont think its a compliment where you come from.

Not among the idiot pseudo-intellectuals, most of whom preach Marxism, no. But I figured you were insulting me because you were using it in an insulting way.

You say: "US ROX U ALL HAHAHAHA" in a little softenedway.

...I'm the stupid one, here? You managed to miss the entire point of that paragraph. o_O

Did you know that because Americans have a wish to live in "luxury" and the wish to get double everything the world is getting polluted a lot more. Note:This isnt meant to be offensive, just as a side note.

...that sounds almost anti-human. You'd sooner we live in a jungle than have industrialization? Sorry, but I'd sooner pollute the world a little and live better. I'm too humanist for anything else.

You just thought that up.

...no, that's sarcasm, kid.

I think you are going overboard with this.

Please read the works of philosophers at the time, and tell me how America is anti-reason. How am I going overboard with this?

So you say America is tolerant?I think the people that support that kind of government are liberals and they exist even here, in the faraway "fascist" country Estonia

...no, that wasn't the point at all. And liberals piss me off because they're anti-economic freedom. o_O What the hell are you going on about?

oh great a ing moron bashes christains. I'm christain thats very offensive my good friend real offensive. Only 3% christains actually say that crap everyone else who is christains doesnt tell people they are going to hell heck they say they aren't in a position to tell people were they are going when they die.Yeah yeah im going off topic but you just wanted to bash christainity.
Anyway america is a nice country to live in and such but its filled with alot of ignorance.but so is the rest of the world so dont compain!

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend your religion. I was referring to the Bible Belt of America (those "three percent") in reality, and altruistic code of ethics in general (the idea that to put others before self is divine). I don't agree with Christianity, and yeah, I think our religious hotbed (GOD BLESS AMERICA) is sort of bad. But I didn't mean for actual offense to be taken by a Christian. Sorry.

[theundeadhero]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend your religion. I was referring to the Bible Belt of America (those "three percent") in reality, and altruistic code of ethics in general (the idea that to put others before self is divine). I don't agree with Christianity, and yeah, I think our religious hotbed (GOD BLESS AMERICA) is sort of bad. But I didn't mean for actual offense to be taken by a Christian. Sorry.

In all honesty it wasn't just the bible belt where Bush won. Kerry held a majority of the Northeaster part of America, Old English America if you will, and Bush held a majority of the rest of country. Sure a state or two stood out against the majority of those around it, but thats what was shown on the map after the election.

[PhoenixAsh]

I don't really want to get involved in this as to be honest I know very little about either arguement. I'm not hugely convinced by either side from what I've read so far though.

Anyway on a fairly on topic note, I was interested in what freedom and all such things the USA actually has over other countries? I know these are probably the more emotive things and thats why I've heard of them more, but things such as the gun laws and saluting the flag in schools don't scream freedom to me.

Also why is such emphasis put on the foundations of America? From what I've seen it's history isn't anything massively to be proud of over other countries.

As I say I'm uninformed, just asking.

[Teek]

In all honesty it wasn't just the bible belt where Bush won. Kerry held a majority of the Northeaster part of America, Old English America if you will, and Bush held a majority of the rest of country. Sure a state or two stood out against the majority of those around it, but thats what was shown on the map after the election.

I know. My argument was not against Christianity, like it was taken. It's against an altrusitic code of ethics. The fact that Bush won scares me because of his warmongering... but then, hell, Kerry was trying to pull some socialist strings, so America is in a really tough time right now.

I don't really want to get involved in this as to be honest I know very little about either arguement. I'm not hugely convinced by either side from what I've read so far though.

I'd be happy to issue doubts or concerns.

Anyway on a fairly on topic note, I was interested in what freedom and all such things the USA actually has over other countries? I know these are probably the more emotive things and thats why I've heard of them more, but things such as the gun laws and saluting the flag in schools don't scream freedom to me.

You're right. I am not saying America is perfect. We are full of contradictions that need to be done away with.

Also why is such emphasis put on the foundations of America? From what I've seen it's history isn't anything massively to be proud of over other countries. As I say I'm uninformed, just asking.

Er, I don't mean to sound elitist, but get informed, if you're genuinely curious. Books on the Enlightenment and rational thought, in accordance with the principles this country was founded on, explains a lot of this. We've had our bad points - most of them last century - but on the whole we aren't exactly behind. And, for god's sake, we're not the worst in the world. *eyeroll*

[lordblazer]

Temple Knight I live in oklahoma even though its West of the missippi idiots consider it the bible belt.Plus really you owuldnt see black christain comdeem somoene to hell anyway.

Ok america aint perfect at all.Liek Racism if oyu mention you were racially profiled and oyu say it to a white friend of yours then he'll striaght up say your lying stop tlaking to me. Like today in OKC the street literally had 2 inches of ice.on NE 50th street there was no salt until you passed htis bridged that led into NW 50th Street.The NE side of town was in horrible condition thre was no salt wat-so-ever ont eh streets.Heck not even sand.But as soon as you cross over to the NW side of town were it just happen to be were the majority of caucasin residents live,and hte NE side were its predominatedly Black.Well you get the picture.I said it to the same friend right well he straights up denies it even though we were both in that car when we notice the difference.In OKC Mian roads like 50th street literally connect from one end of the city to the other.So getting around OKC is no problem.If they salted and Sanded the NW side of 50th street then why not NE 50th its the same street they just had to go straight?You may call me stupid and oyu can tell me that I'm some idiot trying to think we still liv ein post 1970s and that I'm just imagining that racism still goes on in american when it goes on everywhere.But I think america specifically a group of people in america which makes up the majority of its population.Would rather turn the other cheek and deny it even when its right in front of them.Also I always wondered why a lot of caucasins are against reperations for african americans.I mean you gave the japaneese reps. for just being captured for i dunno i forget but was it 2 or 4 years?Anyway done with my sister's theory which im kinda behind it all. Racism is a big problem and I just noticed as a american why is it taboo among the caucasin group?
edit-when i say caucasin group I dont mean it to offend anyone in anyway.

edit- another edit here. Well i was going off topic but i was kinda in topic like how temple knight generalized christains.I dont mean to generalize caucasins because not all but were i live its literally a lot and goto california and they will say your wrong up and down.Has anyone seen Bowling For Colubine?If you have then you'll know what im talking about.To tell you the truth the stuff thats happening to the minority groups in america isn't as bad as teh stuff that is happening in other countries such as genocide and tribalism.

[Trumpet Thief]

I think 100 000 is a bigger number than 2000.You think he stopped terrorism?Instead he encouraged it.Now people hate America a whole lot more.Why hasnt there been a terrorist attack lately?America's luck.
Or the silence before the storm.

*Doesn't use Split Personalities in this thread*

Those numbers were people's deaths; both of them were large disasters. Still, I never did support Bush much- or the Iraq war for that matter.

[PhoenixAsh]

Temple Knight: "You're right. I am not saying America is perfect. We are full of contradictions that need to be done away with."

I know this, but (and this may also be just a result biased media etc.) America is the country that advertises itself as the most free. I just wondered why this was the case.

"I'd be happy to issue doubts or concerns. "

They're mainly due to bias, and that I don't think anyone here will know enough. I certainly don't know what comparisons are accurate so I can't judge. I know the idea that the American government is the worst in the world seems a bit far fetched, but a formula popped in to my head for deciding how 'good' a country is which is causing me problems:

Consider the moral status of a government's action are given a numerical value. Now if we take absolutely no moral relevance to be zero, and take the relationship of how 'good' (g) a country is to be defined as it's moral status (m) multiplied by it's influence (p), then we get g=mp. Considering how much influence America has it isn't simply a question of how moral it is, simply having a moral status below zero would rank it fairly low, and of course vice versa.

Of course this is just me thinking out err... well silently typing, but as this is a completely subjective question I thought I'd look at different approaches rather than claim access to knowledge of what is 'best'.

"Er, I don't mean to sound elitist, but get informed, if you're genuinely curious. Books on the Enlightenment and rational thought, in accordance with the principles this country was founded on, explains a lot of this. We've had our bad points - most of them last century - but on the whole we aren't exactly behind. And, for god's sake, we're not the worst in the world. *eyeroll*"#

I am trying to get informed, I'm asking here. There are a lot of books on this I imagine which I don't have time to read them, or even really to read one right now. My question was as to why emphasis was put onto the foundations, not if the foundations were any good. Simply asking Americans seemed a fairly sensible approach to getting an answer.

The whole treatment of Native Americans, slavery etc. gets a fair amount of airing, just a few things that struck my mind as I was writing.

[theundeadhero]

The main thing to remember in all this is that people are judging America solely on what the current president is doing in his war efforts. When saying it's the worst government in the world all aspects should be looked at. We're provided free education up to a point and the ability to pursue further education if desired. We have acess to things that are required to meet all our basic needs. Food, clothing, shelter, medicine. All of this is obtainable. Our gevernment doesn't oppress any minorities. You could argue that some are being oppressed, but it's not the government that's oppressing them. Individuals, although sometimes working in groups, are. Civillians are allowed to persue any religion, express any opinion, and participate in any hobby that doesn't infringe on the rights of others. We also try and help other countries when in need. We donated a very large sum of money for tsunami relief. The main thing here, is that you need to look at the whole picture and not just one aspect of it.

[Raistlin]

The Contradictary Morality. People come to this country for life, liberty and the puruit of happiness. They come knowing here they won't be subjected to society as a collective whole; they are individuals, they can achieve whatever they wish to acheive; ours is a free market, free society, free life. It also is a hotbed for Christian Conservatism (really, nowhere else in the world they'd allow to speak the way they do).

So basically you're saying no other government values the right to freedom of speech and peaceful protest like the US does. Even though it's complete bull, thanks for giving an argument supporting the US.

[Teek]

So basically you're saying no other government values the right to freedom of speech and peaceful protest like the US does. Even though it's complete bull, thanks for giving an argument supporting the US.

No, when it started, it was the first of its kind. I know nowadays many countries have this fundamental right.

PheonixAsh, the Patriot Act was created out of fear and complete rejection on the fundamental, personal rights issue. I can't imagine that many people agree with it. It's obviously not constitutional.

Oh, and I'm speaking a lot on the foundations of America because that's the timeless qualities that we can judge a country on. We see that the current administration clearly violates a lot of these foundations. We are not the worst country in the world because we are having our foundations violated; we have the worst administration, that's all.

And if we're judged for slavery and such, then we judge Estonia based on its past - communism. I'd rather stick with fundamental foundations and principles combined with current actions.

Oh, and Doors. You have to learn to be more argumentative. You're really bad at it.

[Raistlin]

Oh, and I'm speaking a lot on the foundations of America because that's the timeless qualities that we can judge a country on. We see that the current administration clearly violates a lot of these foundations. We are not the worst country in the world because we are having our foundations violated; we have the worst administration, that's all.

Not "worst" administration, just very very bad. "Worst" and "best" are ridiculous words for a debate.
However, I agree with that for the most part.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

OK, for the third freakin' time, Doors, if you are reading this, you've been ignoring my post. To reiterate AGAIN:

You seem to have missed my point entirely. You've given many reasons why you dislike the government, yet you have failed UTTERLY in proving the statement you made for this thread, i.e. that the American government is the best in the world. As amusing as your ranting about how Bush is teh evil, the best you've come to even stating the very topic this thread is supposedly supposed to be about is some vague comments about things you don't like.

[Teek]

Not "worst" administration, just very very bad. "Worst" and "best" are ridiculous words for a debate.
However, I agree with that for the most part.

I'm merely using them because the debate seems to be based around it - it is called the "worst" government in the world, after all. (How can one, truly objectively, base what was the "worst" administration?)

[lordblazer]

The main thing to remember in all this is that people are judging America solely on what the current president is doing in his war efforts. When saying it's the worst government in the world all aspects should be looked at. We're provided free education up to a point and the ability to pursue further education if desired. We have acess to things that are required to meet all our basic needs. Food, clothing, shelter, medicine. All of this is obtainable. Our gevernment doesn't oppress any minorities. You could argue that some are being oppressed, but it's not the government that's oppressing them. Individuals, although sometimes working in groups, are. Civillians are allowed to persue any religion, express any opinion, and participate in any hobby that doesn't infringe on the rights of others. We also try and help other countries when in need. We donated a very large sum of money for tsunami relief. The main thing here, is that you need to look at the whole picture and not just one aspect of it.

the free education thing didnt start until the late 1800s early 1900s and it wasn't completely availible to all american citizenstil 1960 and up.