Stereotyping female characters

[Itsunari 2000]

Do you get the feeling that FF female characters have almost always been stereotyped to be magic-wielders , with no experience in weaponry ?

It seems to me that's the way it is.

[theundeadhero]

In the earlier ones I do but Yuffie and Rikku break that mold.

[Martyr]

What earlier ones? You mean 4?

The female characters in 4 were submissive wife-to-be characters. But nobody can argue against the fact that Rydia was still totally badass. The onl other girl was Rosa and she was a white mage. So what? I like the idea of female healers.

1 and 3 the genders were irrelevant. In 2, the girl could be your strongest warrior if you wanted her to be.

6 had tons of variety.
If you want to disagree, my argument is in brackets, but you don't really have to read all that.
[Sure, Terra was a primary caster, but that's all there is for girls only casting spells. The blonde magi-cyborg (Whatever she was) was a fighter and caster. It's a strong possibility that Shadow is a female. And the painter girl had high magical power, but she was probably one of the least "stereotyped" characters of them all. I don't think that painting is a stereotyped trait of women. That kid was completely different]

So is IV a stereotype? No. I don't think so. Not too much. Maybe Yang, the asian, as a black belt, Rosa, the tender princess who doesn't live for the smell of blood, as a healer, the girl captured by monsters is a summoner...
Those aren't stereotypes. Those are generated characters based slightly on reality. (Asians are predominantly known for martial arts, caring people are more likely to want to heal and take care of other people, somebody who makes friends with monsters is far more likely to have had made friends with monsters since that is a definite history)

If Rosa was a dark knight, Kain was the jumping healer with a spear, and Rydia came out of the monster world as a ninja, then it would be more of a confused mess than an original story.

[finalheaven]

er..ok my reply is gonna be more less..detailed..ermm yeah i guess so..maybe apart from ff-x2 but yeah...good point

[mythus]

I am going to have to agree with Martyr. I do not feel that Final Fantasy games sterotype women. Infact I believe they go out of their way to include women as an equally im[portant assest to any world saving team. Take FF5 for example.Spoiler!

By the end of the game it is an almost all women team that saves the world, with the exception of Bartz, who may as well be the luckiest man alive. Not to forget that Farris, a woman, is also a pirate and leader of a pirate gang.

Not very sterotypical of women I'd say.

Also what about FF6? A general who is a woman (Celes).

I definetly disagree that Final Fantasy sterotypes women as spellcasters.

[Yuffie514]

i noticed that Square likes to hook up blond guys with brunettes: Cloud/Aeris/Tifa (love triangle), Zidane/Garnet, Shuyin/Lenne, Tidus/Yuna.

[JseanjohnC]

dont 4get Seifer/Rinoa in a way too!

[Crazy the Clown]

There are exceptions to that rule.

Ayla, Selphie, Tifa, Yuffie, Rikku, Kid, Orlha, and Paine are some good examples of what I'm talking about.

[DJZen]

The onl other girl was Rosa and she was a white mage.

There's also Porom, who, while still a white mage, smacks her brother around.

The blonde magi-cyborg (Whatever she was) was a fighter and caster.

Are you talking about Celes? She wasn't a cyborg...

It's a strong possibility that Shadow is a female.

Well.... (SPOILER)Shadow's a guy, his name is Clyde. But that's not exactly obvious right away...

And the painter girl had high magical power, but she was probably one of the least "stereotyped" characters of them all. I don't think that painting is a stereotyped trait of women. That kid was completely different

She wasn't a mage but she still wasn't good in combat. In fact, mages have magic that makes up for their lack of fighting ability. Relm just has a brush. Her usefulness in a fight is very questionable, which is sort of the female stereotype.


I think that there's been quite a bit of female stereotyping in the FF series, but there's more than a few totally badass characters. Rydia, while lacking physical strength (she's only like 10 or whatever when you first get her.....) more than compensates with her ability to summon Bahamut. Lulu is probably the first specifically female black mage in the whole series. Come to think of it.... Yup, first one ever! Rikku has no attack power whatsoever, but being a theif/chemist DEFINITELY makes her useful, sometimes moreso than Tidus. Faris commanded and entire crew of pirates, you can't be a wimp if you're gonna do that! Beatrix is probably the only female character who is meant to be physically strong. Her "class" is never completely given, but it seems that she's some variant on knight.

Maria, Rosa, Klulu, Selphie, Rinoa and Eiko, however, all do a good job of not being terribly strong in any sense of the word.

[Itsunari 2000]

I've just had a thought .

Women are supposedly more proficient with magic - maybe that's the reason FF females ( with the exceptions everyone's mentioned ) are stereotyped like that ... ?

[Martyr]

I've just had a thought .

Women are supposedly more proficient with magic - maybe that's the reason FF females ( with the exceptions everyone's mentioned ) are stereotyped like that ... ?

Well... Um...

Are they supposedly more proficient with magic.
I mean, I've never actually seen magic happen. Not real magic. I once met some chick who claims that she can make love potions and such (Witch/Whacko), but I've never seen her do it.

I know that it pisses people off when I say stuff like this, but:
Men do build muscles far easier than women. Men have been, on a large scale, the ones who fought in wars in the past (Especially those of midieval times when physical strength and ability was more important. That is, not to discredit modern soldeirs, but people can be pilots and still not be able to bench twice their weight.)

Perhaps it's more logical and typical that women shouldn't be swinging greatswords. Perhaps the invention of "magic" in a fantasy world is what allows women to better fit in and take a roll in the Final Fantasy style warfare.

Men as manual warriors is not stereotypical. It's practical and logical.

Bizarre example: Frogs hop. For the purpose of originality, in a story, would it be a good idea to have frogs made of cardboard with human noses who don't hop but, instead, slide like slugs on slime that oozes from between their eyes?

No. That's something completely different. There is no shame in having frogs that hop, EVEN THOUGH, frogs have always hopped.

So, just like frogs hop, men fight. Women do laundry. If a woman feels like picking up a sword, most likely, to save time (Which she probably doesn't have to be working out twice as much as a guy), she'll probably want a small blade. She's probably naturally more flexible. She's probably going to be a runner or a spy. Not an armor clad barbarian with a 100 lb Battle Axe.
But if she wants to kill things, let her be a mage. It's a freaking good solution!

And that's why!

And, for the record, stereotypes aren't evil! They're just the result of what usually happens! Stereotypes are generally dependable and they often come out to be quite true. If you don't believe me, go armwrestle anybody of the opposite sex with your same lifestyle.
If you don't like them, then read a book. Final Fantasy is not supposed to be your resource for literary genious.

[theundeadhero]

My post was based on only the magic stereotype.

FFII- While this one is totally my fault, Maria is always the Red Mage of the group.
FFIV-Rosa, Rydia, and Porom all used magic.
FFV- You can't really classify this game because it's all what you make of it.
FFVI-Celes, Terra, and Realm are all magic users without the use of Espers.
FFVII-Aeris is a magic user. (Guess I shoulda mentioned Tifa in my list)
FFVIII-Rinoa is a sorceross. Selfie is more inclined to use magic than be an all out physical fighter. Questis is a blue mage.
FFIX-Dagger and Eiko are summoners.
FFX-Yuna is a summoner and Lulu is a black mage.
FFXI- Can't really classify.

[TheAbominatrix]

Relm doesnt use magic without Espers, she just has a higher magic power that everyone else.

[Itsunari 2000]

Well... Um...

Are they supposedly more proficient with magic.
I mean, I've never actually seen magic happen. Not real magic. I once met some chick who claims that she can make love potions and such (Witch/Whacko), but I've never seen her do it.

I know that it pisses people off when I say stuff like this, but:
Men do build muscles far easier than women. Men have been, on a large scale, the ones who fought in wars in the past (Especially those of midieval times when physical strength and ability was more important. That is, not to discredit modern soldeirs, but people can be pilots and still not be able to bench twice their weight.)

Perhaps it's more logical and typical that women shouldn't be swinging greatswords. Perhaps the invention of "magic" in a fantasy world is what allows women to better fit in and take a roll in the Final Fantasy style warfare.

Men as manual warriors is not stereotypical. It's practical and logical.

Bizarre example: Frogs hop. For the purpose of originality, in a story, would it be a good idea to have frogs made of cardboard with human noses who don't hop but, instead, slide like slugs on slime that oozes from between their eyes?

No. That's something completely different. There is no shame in having frogs that hop, EVEN THOUGH, frogs have always hopped.

So, just like frogs hop, men fight. Women do laundry. If a woman feels like picking up a sword, most likely, to save time (Which she probably doesn't have to be working out twice as much as a guy), she'll probably want a small blade. She's probably naturally more flexible. She's probably going to be a runner or a spy. Not an armor clad barbarian with a 100 lb Battle Axe.
But if she wants to kill things, let her be a mage. It's a freaking good solution!

And that's why!

And, for the record, stereotypes aren't evil! They're just the result of what usually happens! Stereotypes are generally dependable and they often come out to be quite true. If you don't believe me, go armwrestle anybody of the opposite sex with your same lifestyle.
If you don't like them, then read a book. Final Fantasy is not supposed to be your resource for literary genious.

I had taken all that into account , thank you - but one point - you say "stereotypes are generally dependable and they quite often turn out to be quite true " - so , what about racial stereotypes?
Are you suggesting that every Scotsman wears tartan , blows the bagpipes and eats haggis ? All American tourists wear big stetsons , smoke cigars and speak in big, loud Texan accents ? All Germans are big bruisers who steal sunloungers , don't shave and are all basically arrogant ? If you believe that, you need to wake up.

Remember this is a free democratic forum , before you reproach ME on what is and what is not a resource of " literary genius " !!!

[TheSpoonyBard]

stereotypes are generally dependable and they quite often turn out to be quite true

I got the impression this was meant to read "Stereotypes have originated because they are based on some truth, albeit generalised and somewhat outdated by today's standards."

I disagree with the claim that women have been typecast (I prefer that word to 'stereotyped') as magic users as although almost all of the women in Final Fantasy games use magic, the men do also. In fact Strago is predominantly a magic user, and he is male. In FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII and FFX all characters can use magic, not just the females. I apologise for not mentioning the earlier games but I haven't played them yet. FFIX is an interesting case as some may see the central plot revolving around a male magic user who goes by the name of Vivi. There just happens to be two female magic users included.

I can see where some of you are coming from, but the statement should not be "Women are stereotyped as magic users", but should in fact read "Female characters are usually more proficient in their use of magic than the male characters". The historical/traditional reasoning behind this has already been mentioned by Martyr before he descended into insanity and began talking about frogs.