Final Fantasy VII: Really the best?

[Sepho]

To be honest Seph0zo, all you did is state something a particular character or event had in common.

First off, I stated absolutely nothing. I made it clear more than once that I didn't write it. It's a comparison between the two games that was written by someone who I used to post with on the GameGossip forums who went by the username Shotokan Order. I'm not sure what was intended when it was written (and I don't know where the guy is anymore), by it certainly should cause one to open up their mind and think a little. I can honestly say the guy was more intelligent than I am, or at least more insightful, because I could never come up with something like that. You can take it as what you will - I personally thought it was an enjoyable read if nothing else, and it made me think.

And secondly, in response to the "a particular character or event had in common" part.

The person who wrote it compared many key plot points and characters from the two games. Both of you are clearly attempting to make the comparisons seem exagerrated, but I can say you're doing the opposite with that statement by significantly downplaying the uncanniness of the similarities mentioned.

If you really wanted to you could do that same thing with more than half the FF series.
EDIT: actually you could do it with most RPG's. Boo hoo.

Thare are so many RPG cliches in stories these days that the majority of them are, on the whole, unoriginal in relation to most of the other games on the market. That statement I would agree with entirely.

However, there are a few that don't fall in that category, and those are the gems that often find themselves on the list of my personal favorites . Moreover, while most people claim to play the FF games for their stories, I've never thought they were particularly original compared to some plots(Xenogears, for example, as well as the Xenosaga series).

If you can write up some comparisons like that between two other RPGs, I'd most definitely find it as something I'd enjoy reading.

Whatever your feelings are, the likeness of the two games, in the way that it's illustrated in the above-written comparison (which is admittedly written in a way to make the games appear as like each other as possible) is more far more profound than any similarities between any two other RPGs I've noticed (although as I've mentioned, I don't really have an eye for these things), and the number of them is greater. And its the fact that they are two games in the same series and sequence that makes the similarities (running out of synonyms for that word ) more interesting.

Anyhoo, I honestly think you guys are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is.

in the words of uber language i believe we just owned you

I believe you "owned" nothing, although if you had I wouldn't know - I didn't read more than the first paragraph of your initial post because the utter lack of any commas or periods gave me a headache. I didn't expect a big huge debate out of it, but to be realistic, I should have, and that's my fault. I just knew that it was going to be taken way too seriously (which was why I was "holding it back").

I can understand someone posting and saying "Well, that's interesting, but I think some of the similarities are questionable" (and I've seen plenty of people write similar posts), but you two just went right to town on it.

and that theory unless you can think of something else

As far as I can tell, it's not a "theory". The similarities mentioned above aren't made-up explanations for certain events or anything of the like. The story events written took place, and the character backstories certainly didn't stem from his imagination.

And I don't have to think of something else to satisfy you. It's there for your entertainment purposes only, and if you're somehow offended (which is something I can't comprehend), well, then, I apologize ? *shrugs*

EDIT: Btw, *snip*

And

chaos: IMO, FFVII is too overrated. I preferred VI and IV over it, and always will.

I agree.

[Trumpet Thief]

chaos: I agree with every single thing you have said SephO_zO. I would've quoted, but there were too many things that I had agreed on.

Rubedo: For one, I as well found that Xenosaga/Xenogears had a more original plot all the way through. There are plenty of RPG's that are not based on another story, or copying the main idea of another game.

chaos: As well, Shoden, I doubt there was any real argument in this thread that you won, and made you say that you "owned" him. Half of the time, everyone was just talking 'bout how perfect this game was. Not like I have much of a problem with it, but...

FF7 pwns all.. it is so L337!!!!! there never was and will be a better game.. I love seph...

actualy I think graphicaly obviously the new games beat this one out, but when it comes to battle system and plot I love it... plus being the first ff I ever played it has that nostalgia to it. I admit FF10 gave it a good run.. and currently plotwise.. I think Xenosaga mgiht blow it away.

and

good news for ya its gettin remade along with 8 the project started 3 years ago they're working on 8 and are planning to release them at the same time which i think sucks as we could of goten our hands on it last year

as well as

probably the greatest ff game ever

and

I love it so much. The graphics were groundbreaking as some of the first released on PS1 with FMV's. Actual FMV's!!!!! (That was pretty damn impressive back then). The battle system was very enjoyable, it allowed tactics and great use of the materia combinations system. The sound was in midi quality but most/all of the tracks were brilliant. The storyline is CLASS. Nuff said. Sounds pretty damn good to me and I think its the best FF.

and this final one:

i THINK FF7 IS THE BEST GAME EVER, It has awsome charecters (Cloud rules All!) the music waz great. yes the graphics could use a little tuning up, but the all around story and gameplay is top of the line. It kicks ff8's ass any day!

chaos: Makes me thing that this game is a "Tad" overrated. I can't really blame you, though, but it's just that those 2D games should be given more of a try. When people say that FFVII is "teh best FF evar!!11" without playing the older one, it angers me.

Rubedo: Oh yeah, and good luck in the Ace Party!

[Del Murder]

Seph: Do not advertise your party in your posts. Use your sig for that.

FFVII was not the best but it was still really awesome.

[Sepho]

Ah, I was unaware that I wasn't allowed to do that. I read through the various threads regarding the elections, and must have missed that part somewhere.

I apologize, and thanks for the heads up.

Rubedo: Oh yeah, and good luck in the Ace Party!

Thanks. I believe we consider BAotW to be our main contender. This is my first time taking part in the elections, and I'm pretty excited about it. Seems like a lot of fun.

[Shoden]

right if you're an experienced reader than that post would be easy as out to read. FF6 never had Weapons that fitted with the storyline or sub quests or secrets that helped build the game up, i thought 6 was quite a boring game with a grey sense of mixture if you do believe 7 copied 6 than 7 was a BETTER version of 6 with a hell of alot more great things. it is overated if you dont understand the whole game 100% like with 8 before i understood 7 i preferred 8.

hey this is a forum its not as if its the law to use commas and full stops but if you prefer me too do it i'll try it. advice never play FF4 after a new year party i was so screwed the next day from headaches and bad music ringing in my head i sold it. 7 was better as it was more evolved i played 6 once quite easy if you ask me but 7 gave alot of oh hell this is so goddamn hard moments. Ruby and Emerald are monstrous bitches that go off the richter in difficulty

[Wuggly Blight]

FF7 is my personal best game of the series...
1)The characters was well spaced out, developed and motiviated
2)The world had alot of background
3)Support characters had good background
4)the plot was well devloped, spaced out and well thought off and intresting
well placed plot twists and parts of the story you need to figure out yourself or find out the reason/meaning far later in the game unlike 10 where you are spoon fed everything
5) Good soundtrack
6) Well developed villain with well thought of reasons and good back up villains
7) Alot of good minigames that are FUN
8) Fun and innovate skill system
9) Challanging optional bosses
10) A hella funny cross ddressing scene
11) Good use of final fantasy tradition while still remaining innovate
12) Good FMVs
13) Laughing at how stupidly big Tifa's boob's are is endless fun
14) Alot of subquests and side areas to maintain intrest
15) Replayability due to event branches, items, and enjoyable story

well thats a few of my reasons for liking it.

[Shoden]

whats wrong with Tifas boobs? lol sorry dont answer that

[Wuggly Blight]

Becuase her back must hurt something cronic.

[Shoden]

so they make her look good

[Wuggly Blight]

Oh and I forgot to mention consitancy, and it challanges the players mind as well as gaming skill. That gal needs some kind of support, its gonna cause some serious pain in later life, or she may do a Lu-Lu (a z list celeb) and get crushed under them, either way I dun wanna be around when she starts running.

[Raistlin]

FF7 is far from the best. However, it is one of the best FFs(FFT being the best).

[Destai]

FF (6/7) is at it's core, the story of the struggle of a small group of friends against an evil power bent on destroying life as they know it.

And what RPG doesnt involve this? I mean seriosuly, would it be original if it was a large group of friends? Now thats a game Id buy!

It begins with an attack on (Narsh/Reactor #8),

Well Im sure you already know this but lets see, In Narshe two soldiers escorted a mysterious girl under mind control to retrieve an ancient creature, They were unsuccesful, both soldiers were apparently killed and the girl was released from mind control and attempted to escape through the mines with the help of a thief/A group of terrorists and a hired angsty mercanary destroy a reactor as a blow against the powerful Shinra company.
*suspicious*

but shortly thereafter we begin to get more of the story. A small, terrorist organization called (The Returners/Avalanche) is seeking to use any means neccessarry to stop the evil (Empire/Shinra Corporation).

The returners are attempting to stop the rebirth of an ancient war and avoid magic from being released upon the world/The eco group Avalanche is attempting to stop the planet from being drained and dieing.
Who would attempt such a thing? Why the evil empire of course!(the enemy is evil so you can tell its original) They are unchallenged in technology but desire the power of the ancient world(they have that incommon but so do a hell of a lot of games, Skie of arcadia, FF series, BOF series, Devil may cry 2, Grandia series, you get the picture and I get the feeling theyre not all blatant rip offs of VI)./ Shinra company without care drain the Mako from the earth to power there normal every day lives, They have control across the world.

This evil power was set on controlling the world through the use of (Magic/Mako Energy). It would seem only a matter of time before all would be at their feet.

Magic would be used so the leaders of the groups would become gods among men, They already controlled the world/Mako would be used to create a new city known as neo midgar so Shinra would live profitable lives of luxury at the planets expense.

But it wasn't enough for them just to control the world. They wanted to control nature itself.

FFVI wanted to control nature, FFVII just wanted to use it. J-cells were used in Hojos research for science and he grew his own desires maing the Shinra more powerful

Through the use of (Magitek enhancements/Jenova cells), they created a superpowerful minion. (Kefka/Sephiroth) was extraordinarily powerful, but the experiments were not completely successful. In the end, he went completely insane.

A high up ranking officer volunteered to be exposed to magicite granting him the power of magic however something backfired and he went insane. He was not extremely powerful/Hojo an obsessed scientist impregnated his fellow researcher Lucrecia and injected jenova cells into her womb. The baby survived and was born an extremely powerful super soldier. When he learned of Jenova a woman he believed to be his mother was an alien entity unaware of how exactly he was born or from who he believd himself to be some kind of creature also, went insane, slaughtered the town and attempted to release his mother in theory form her containment. A normal soldier managed to defeat him and he died (or did he???)

A vastly evil being, as he demonstrated when he cut down (General Leo/Aeris) in cold blood, and when he then killed the leader of (The Empire/Shinra).

OMG Even more evil! Its all coming together now... *plot twist* yowza!
General Leo attempting to stop him from attacking innocents when he gained cintrol of magicites fought him and lost/Aeris the last survivng of the ancients attempted to summon holy as she secretly knew Sephiroth would attempt to summon a meteor to make the planet cry out in pain, attempt to heal itself and Sephiroth would use that healing energy to become a god, Sephiroth was aware of this and after an attempt to manipulate the hero CLoud to kill her failed, He did it himself
The emperor Gestahl was killed because Kefka had used his resources and had attained the power of a god, He was now insignificant so byebye/The president Shinra was killed by Sephiroth because he was holding Sephiroths mother captive which wasnt a big deal because he could take her by force but Sephiroth would not have them attempt to take the promised land full of Mako as it was necessary for him to become the head of Jenova, or a God (Yes many RPG's have bad guys who want and quite often suceed in becoming a god and yes they're all ripping off VI)

He began to fancy himself worthy of godhood, and sought out the means to do so. Our noble heros tried desperately to prevent him from aquiring (the Goddess Statues/the Black Materia), but they were too late.

Wow they even tried to stop him! You see my main interest in RPG's is making trendy little graphs of the number of people per town. Stopping the enemy just never crossed my mind.Now as far as I remember the Goddesses were three divine beings who constantly fought each other and eventually to prevent the world from being destroyed were imprisoned in stone/The black materia was the power to summon a meteor to collide with the earth hidden by the ancients in a clever trap.

His power brought chaos onto the world. The (Dragons/Weapons) roamed free for the first time since antiquity.

Large creatures which go around attacking to show how tough the bad guy is. Thats original...
Now as I understand it the dragons were creatures used in the war of the magi along with doomgaze, and that stupid bloated frog./The weapons were used by the planet to protect itself. Admittedly similar backstory between those two games in particular but first of few.

People were afraid, but our heros rose up to the challenge. Seeking out weapons of great power and aiming to protect the world they loved, the flew in their mighty airship to the (Floating Continent/North Crater)

A conntinent in the sky, A hole in the earth, another Dimension,A great castle, Within a great beast, RPG's people.

where the evil one had gathered all his power together. Fighting through many foes, they eventually reached the center of it all. (Kefka/Sephiroth) was powerful, and had taken on a new image - that of an angel with one wing, beautiful and terrifying at the same time. But they triumphed.

Odd what you end up with when you become a god but this is admittedly similar to those two particular games.

But the threat was not over. The legacy of the evil lived on, and promised to destroy (Terra/Midgar). But fortunately for us, a deus ex machina intervenes in the form of the lifeforce of (Terra's human half/The planet). And we all live happily ever after.

Kefka died hence his tower collapsed/Sephiroth died but the meteor didnt and holy was only beginning to move. The rest didnt make a whole lot of sense. Holy was a dissapointment and failed to have the needed effect, it was too weak so the planet did the job for it. Terras esper half managed to get the team out of the tower. Not much of a connection.

Characters? We got em! First and foremost is (Terra/Cloud). (S)he spend some time working for (The Empire/Shinra) but has come to the side of good now. Despite a brief, completely psychotic episode, he/she is a good person, and essentially the protaginist of the story.

Terra is born from a human and an esper. She is the only survivor of the empires attack on the esper world (the only one not turned to magicite anyway)She feels no fulfilment in existing as she wonders wether she is really human (or something like that). She has been under mind control (for how long Im not sure of)causing her to lose her memories until an encounter with tritoch released the mind control and Ramuh informed her of her past/Cloud grew up in A mountain town named Nibelheim. He was an antisocial kid who was affectionate towards Tifa Lockheart, He promised to become an elite member of soldier to win her attention and left the town. Some years later he returned in secret on a mission with the legendary Sephiroth and a soldier named Zack. They investigated the reactor and fixed a malfunction. He witnessed Sephiroth go insane and slaughter his home town. Defying all odds Cloud defeated him and threw him into the lifestream from the mako reactor.
Despite a hero with issues they really arent too similar.

You've got lots of others too - (Setzer/Cid) the airship captain (cause you just can't have a final fantasy without an airship, for crikes sake!).

People with airships are ripping of VI? Nice work inspector.

(Gau/Red XII) is the most animalistic of the bunch, which some serious problems with his father, but ultimately an honorable being.

The only connection here is they're opposites. Gau is an animal in a humans body Red XIII vice versa. Gau grew up on the wild fields of the Veldt with wild animals, Red XIII grew up protecting cosmo canyon and its elders. Im spotting large differences so not much of a connection.

(Shadow/Barrett) is an honorable character with a difficult past. His wife has died, and his only surviving family memeber is his daughter. He is driven to violence by his past and his hopes for the future.

Shadow was a runaway who I believed hi robbed trains (cant remember) When his best friend dies (connection) he wandered in depression to a secluded town, had a child and raised a family. When his wife died he left the child and ran off in shame/Barret wallace grew up in a coal mining town. Im honestly not sure about his family affairs. His best friend Dyne and him had some connecion to his Minerva who had a child with Dyne named Marlene. Barret encouraged the coal mining town to modernize itself with the shinra reactors against Dynes wishes. Eventually they did and the shinra double crossed them killing and destroying the town and its people. Barret blames himself for the incident and joined avalnche to fight the shinra. The only survivor Barret found was Dynes daughter marlene whom he raised as his child.
Now I see noticeable similarities in the family matters but all round They've got pretty different lives and certainly personalities. Unless people with daughters and dead wifes are rip offs of VI.

Of course what party would be complete without acception of a few traitors from the other side? (Celes/Cait Sith) worked hard for the other side, but eventually grew tired of the endless bloodshed. Eventually signing up with your group, there were problems with trust, but his/her selfless sacrifice at (the Magitek Facility/the Ancient Ruins) proved them trusted friends.

What you said is similar but the charcters sure arent. nuff said.

Martial artists your thing? Try (Sabin/Tifa).

Even the honourable martial arts ripp of VI. Im truly disgusted.

More into theivery? (Locke/Yuffie) may be your flavor.

yeah or anyone with the steal materia and an obsession. No connection here.

Just want a special character who really makes no sense and doesn't matter much, but we thought would be cool? Try (Gogo/Umaro/Mog/Vincent)!

Vinecent? Now I this makes me wonder if you've even played VII cause you certainly dont know much about his connection to the story.

Yes, Final Fantasy (6/7) is a great game. Come play it now, and you'll never forget it!

Yeah either them or a video game.
Like I said before. Theres a rare clear connection but frankly most of that post was just pointing out that VI and VII were both RPGs. Im aware you didnt write it but Im making my point on what I do and dont agree with from it. p.s.

but you two just went right to town on it.

To be honest Seph0zo, all you did is state something a particular character or event had in common. If you really wanted to you could do that same thing with more than half the FF series.

Yes I clearly went totally out of my way with that post.

[Destai]

Its not as long as it looks, trust me read a bit every now and again.

[Sepho]

I'll read it when I get the impression that you read mine, because the first couple blocks of text allow me to grasp the gist of it. You're basically doing the same thing that Shoden did with his - and that would be stating the most intricate details of the story (in your case, you chose to use FF6, whereas Shoden used FF7) to point out the differences.

They're not the exact same same game? Is that what you're telling me? Okay, I appreciate the information. Truly.

As I've said before, it's just an interesting little comparison that is there for the enjoyment of the reader, and you can take it as seriously as you want to - it's all subjective. In your case, it apparently just bothers you to no end. Well, I apologized for that. shrugs I don't know what else to tell you.

I could just reiterate my points, but you'll likely completely ignore them this time as well, so I'll save us both the trouble.

As I was skimming through your post, one part caught my eye, and it mentioned something about games not being a "blatant rip-off of FFVI". You can take this matter as seriously as you like, but please don't attempt to make it seem like I really care as much by exagerrating my description of the comparison between FF6 and 7. I NEVER said FFVII was a "blatant rip-off of FFVI", or anything of the like. I've said the plot of 7 is recycled from that of 6, and I don't think that's entirely unreasonable. "Recycled" describes a situation where Square took the basic premise of FF6 and adapted it to FF7, while changing the details Yes, the stories of the games aren't completely identical in all the details. Maybe that's because they're different games, or maybe I'm just crazy.

Ah, I should mention the Edit button before a CK catches you. I suggest using it instead of double posting. They hate that

[Shoden]

right then what the hell was the point in making that post then you where saying 7 WAS anither version of 6 and that 6 was better. you also stated that the game had too many similarities which was the point in that post so tell us why did you bother melingering by posting that pointless post, now if you excuse ive got a violent kitten to feed ill be back if my hands are still usable. (5 mins max)