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Thread: What exactly happened to Nibelheim?

  1. #61

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    Zangan also taught Rude martial arts so he currently has two students who would make bitter rivals.
    I think Elmyra should've been the name of Cloud's mom and Aerith's mother's name should've been Claire.
    btw: were Wedge and Biggs in the orig. J-ver. or were they added by the Americans?
    Jack: How do you know?

    Will: It's more of a feeling really.

    Jack: Well, that's not scientific. Feeling isn't knowing. Feeling is believing. If you believe it, you can't know because there's no knowing what you believe. Then again, no one should believe what they know either. Once you know anything that anything becomes unbelievable if only by virtue of the fact you now... know it. You know?

    Will: No.

    If Demolition Man were remade today

    Huxley: What's wrong? You broke contact.
    Spartan: Contact? I didn't even touch you.
    Huxley: Don't you want to make love?
    Spartan: Is that what you call this? Why don't we just do it the old-fashioned way?
    Huxley: NO!
    Spartan: Whoa! Okay, calm down.
    Huxley: Don't tell me to calm down!
    Spartan: What's gotten into you? 'Cause it sure as hell wasn't me.
    Huxley: Physical relations in the way of intercourse are no longer acceptable John Spartan.
    Spartan: What? Why the hell not?
    Huxley: It's the law, John. And for your information, the very idea that you suggested it makes me feel personally violated.
    Spartan: Wait a minute... violated? Huxley what the hell are you accusing me of here?
    Huxley: You need to leave, John.
    Spartan: But Huxley.
    Huxley: Get out!
    Moments later Spartan is arrested for "violating" Huxley.

    By the way, that's called satire. Get over it.

  2. #62
    Like A Boss! Mmhm Lenna's Avatar
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    I think they would have been in the original J vs too because they were part of the storyline. Avalanche could not have just been Cloud Tifa n Barret, otherwise Barret wouldn't have really left would he? or he wouldn't really have had much to fight with
    I'll figure it out later...

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercen-X
    Zangan also taught Rude martial arts so he currently has two students who would make bitter rivals.
    That's never suggested by the game. The only student Zangan is known to have had is Tifa.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mercen-X
    btw: were Wedge and Biggs in the orig. J-ver. or were they added by the Americans?
    Yes, they were in the original version. By the way, the stuff added into the North American and International Versions was also added in by the Japanese, not the Americans or Europeans.
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    Where the clouds part and the truth is revealed: Final Fantasy VII Analysis.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -- Edmund Burke

  4. #64

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    The Japanese must not be sure of themselves if they feel they have to add a bunch of extra stuff before they ship to the U.S

    By the by, when it comes to stuff I'm making up about the story, I'll say "It's my theory" or put "lol" at the end from now on. K?

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercen-X
    The Japanese must not be sure of themselves if they feel they have to add a bunch of extra stuff before they ship to the U.S
    They have deadlines that they have to meet. They put in as much as they can for the initial release, then add the rest in for the International Versions. And it was only for FFVII that the U.S. got the extra stuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mercen-X
    By the by, when it comes to stuff I'm making up about the story, I'll say "It's my theory" or put "lol" at the end from now on. K?
    Okay... but I can't imagine why you would bring up things that aren't part of the story in places that are discussing the story. Whatever floats your boat, though.
    I love my Carys with all my heart.
    <3<3<3<3<3<3<3


    Where the clouds part and the truth is revealed: Final Fantasy VII Analysis.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -- Edmund Burke

  6. #66

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    Lots of people tend to make up their own theories about the story even in a thread that's discussing the real story . . . I'm the only one who seems to be persecuted for it. I understand because I usually make it sound like I'm stating a fact, but it's just my opinion.
    Were there any Squaresoft officials who said flatout that the whole plot and all the details of FF7 could be found right in the game?
    'Cause if they didn't, then there's nothing wrong with a little imagination from the common fan.
    Jack: How do you know?

    Will: It's more of a feeling really.

    Jack: Well, that's not scientific. Feeling isn't knowing. Feeling is believing. If you believe it, you can't know because there's no knowing what you believe. Then again, no one should believe what they know either. Once you know anything that anything becomes unbelievable if only by virtue of the fact you now... know it. You know?

    Will: No.

    If Demolition Man were remade today

    Huxley: What's wrong? You broke contact.
    Spartan: Contact? I didn't even touch you.
    Huxley: Don't you want to make love?
    Spartan: Is that what you call this? Why don't we just do it the old-fashioned way?
    Huxley: NO!
    Spartan: Whoa! Okay, calm down.
    Huxley: Don't tell me to calm down!
    Spartan: What's gotten into you? 'Cause it sure as hell wasn't me.
    Huxley: Physical relations in the way of intercourse are no longer acceptable John Spartan.
    Spartan: What? Why the hell not?
    Huxley: It's the law, John. And for your information, the very idea that you suggested it makes me feel personally violated.
    Spartan: Wait a minute... violated? Huxley what the hell are you accusing me of here?
    Huxley: You need to leave, John.
    Spartan: But Huxley.
    Huxley: Get out!
    Moments later Spartan is arrested for "violating" Huxley.

    By the way, that's called satire. Get over it.

  7. #67
    Ghost of Christmas' past Recognized Member theundeadhero's Avatar
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    (SPOILER) The most common thing believed by oldbies here at EOFF. 5 years ago Sephiroth, a SOLDIER named Zack, and a regular soldier named Cloud went to Nibleheim. There Sephiroth went into the Shinra Mansion and found Shinra documents within the basement. He was led to believe that we was genetically created, or possibly cloned, from Jenova at Nibleheim. He also believed Jenova to be a great Cetra (Ancient) In a fury about what he thought was his past he burned the town down and went towards the Mako Reactor to where his "Mother" was. Tifa, a student of Martial Arts master Zangan, went after him. Cloud and Zack also went after him. Sephiroth killed Zack and wounded Tifa. Cloud wounded Sephiroth and he fell into the Mako Stream. Zangan came in and got Tifa out. Hojo showed up and took Zack and Cloud for mako experimentation. The townspeople were replaced with Shinra staff. Zack utterly rejected to mako infusions but cloud was very receptive to them. It also made him very sick. Zack broke free taking Cloud with him. Shinra caught up to the group and filled Zacks head full of lead. Cloud escaped but with psychological issues as to the actions of him and Zack.

    Sephiroth is the child of Hojo and Lucretia (Vincents wife). While still in the womb he was injected with Jenova cells.

    Jenova is not a great ancient but an alien who fell upon the cetra and poisoned them with a virus.

    The black hooded people were others like Cloud and Zack who were injected with Jenova cells.

    The Sephiroth you follow throughout the first disk is a clone. The real Sephiroth is trapped in Mako repairing his body where the reunion takes place. Cloud was the first to make it to the real Sephiroth.


    Anything else?
    ...

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by theundeadhero
    (SPOILER)Sephiroth killed Zack and wounded Tifa.
    (SPOILER)Zack wasn't killed by Sephiroth. Note that Zangan's letter to Tifa says that Hojo ordered all those still alive be rounded up for the experiment. Zack was still very much alive before Cloud went after Sephiroth on the catwalk above the heart of the Reactor, telling Cloud to kill Sephiroth. For that matter, I doubt he sustained a wound worse than Cloud's, which Cloud survived.


    Quote Originally Posted by theundeadhero
    (SPOILER)Sephiroth is the child of Hojo and Lucretia (Vincents wife).
    (SPOILER)Lucrecia was not Vincent's wife. In fact, the game doesn't even offer an indication that she liked him. She was an assistant to Professor Gast (as was Hojo) and Vincent was a Turk sent with them to Nibelheim to be their bodyguard.


    Quote Originally Posted by theundeadhero
    (SPOILER)The Sephiroth you follow throughout the first disk is a clone.
    (SPOILER)That one's up to debate. Personally, I think it's more likely that they were pieces of JENOVA's body (as JENOVA-BIRTH was a tentacle of JENOVA, and we see a fairly strong indication that the Sephiroth form at the City of the Ancients became JENOVA-LIFE, and see beyond all doubt that the one at the Whirlwind Maze became JENOVA-DEATH).
    I love my Carys with all my heart.
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    Where the clouds part and the truth is revealed: Final Fantasy VII Analysis.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -- Edmund Burke

  9. #69
    Ghost of Christmas' past Recognized Member theundeadhero's Avatar
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    (SPOILER)
    Zack wasn't killed by Sephiroth.
    That was corrected later when I said Shinra soldiers killed him.

    Lucrecia was not Vincent's wife. In fact, the game doesn't even offer an indication that she liked him
    It was alluded to.

    "I let the one I loved, the one I respected most, face the worst."

    That would be Lucretia for her suffering over her Son, Sephiroth.

    That one's up to debate. Personally, I think it's more likely that they were pieces of JENOVA's body (as JENOVA-BIRTH was a tentacle of JENOVA, and we see a fairly strong indication that the Sephiroth form at the City of the Ancients became JENOVA-LIFE, and see beyond all doubt that the one at the Whirlwind Maze became JENOVA-DEATH).
    My belief is Jenova herself was manipulating them through their Jenova cell infusions. At the Whirwind Maze she used the cells to mutate it into Jenova-Death. The Jenova virus did mutate people into monsters. Where would the pieces of Jenova come from? If Jenny could move about and do things with her own body then why not just do it herself instead of manipulating people with Jenova Cells through Sephiroth. Sephiroth wanted to free her and fuse with her to become a God.
    ...

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by theundeadhero
    (SPOILER)
    Zack wasn't killed by Sephiroth.
    That was corrected later when I said Shinra soldiers killed him.
    You didn't correct the point where you said it, however.


    Quote Originally Posted by theundeadhero
    (SPOILER)
    Lucrecia was not Vincent's wife. In fact, the game doesn't even offer an indication that she liked him
    It was alluded to.

    "I let the one I loved, the one I respected most, face the worst."

    That would be Lucretia for her suffering over her Son, Sephiroth.
    (SPOILER)That doesn't allude to her being his wife. Loving someone doesn't automatically make them your wife. She didn't love him. o.O He loved her. She didn't love him, but loved Hojo. It's that simple.


    Quote Originally Posted by theundeadhero
    (SPOILER)If Jenny could move about and do things with her own body then why not just do it herself instead of manipulating people with Jenova Cells through Sephiroth. Sephiroth wanted to free her and fuse with her to become a God.
    (SPOILER)You're ignoring that JENOVA's tentacle is laying on the floor of the cargo ship after JENOVA-BIRTH is defeated. And JENOVA was manipulating the black-cloaked folks to bring them to the Reunion in order to get its Cells back.
    I love my Carys with all my heart.
    <3<3<3<3<3<3<3


    Where the clouds part and the truth is revealed: Final Fantasy VII Analysis.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -- Edmund Burke

  11. #71

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    Squall of SeeD is right, plain and simple.
    (SPOILER)"The ability to change ones appearance . . . is the trait of Jenova."
    That's why every time you're about to fight Sephiroth, you end up in a battle against Jenova.
    Jack: How do you know?

    Will: It's more of a feeling really.

    Jack: Well, that's not scientific. Feeling isn't knowing. Feeling is believing. If you believe it, you can't know because there's no knowing what you believe. Then again, no one should believe what they know either. Once you know anything that anything becomes unbelievable if only by virtue of the fact you now... know it. You know?

    Will: No.

    If Demolition Man were remade today

    Huxley: What's wrong? You broke contact.
    Spartan: Contact? I didn't even touch you.
    Huxley: Don't you want to make love?
    Spartan: Is that what you call this? Why don't we just do it the old-fashioned way?
    Huxley: NO!
    Spartan: Whoa! Okay, calm down.
    Huxley: Don't tell me to calm down!
    Spartan: What's gotten into you? 'Cause it sure as hell wasn't me.
    Huxley: Physical relations in the way of intercourse are no longer acceptable John Spartan.
    Spartan: What? Why the hell not?
    Huxley: It's the law, John. And for your information, the very idea that you suggested it makes me feel personally violated.
    Spartan: Wait a minute... violated? Huxley what the hell are you accusing me of here?
    Huxley: You need to leave, John.
    Spartan: But Huxley.
    Huxley: Get out!
    Moments later Spartan is arrested for "violating" Huxley.

    By the way, that's called satire. Get over it.

  12. #72
    Ghost of Christmas' past Recognized Member theundeadhero's Avatar
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    She didn't love him, but loved Hojo
    As said elsewhere I don't remember that being mentioned. Maybe it is, but can you post it.

    And JENOVA was manipulating the black-cloaked folks to bring them to the Reunion in order to get its Cells back.
    That's exactly what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    instead of manipulating people with Jenova Cells through Sephiroth.
    She was manipulating them to come towards Sephiroth because thats where she would get her cells back at.

    "The ability to change ones appearance . . . is the trait of Jenova."
    That's why every time you're about to fight Sephiroth, you end up in a battle against Jenova.
    And those injected with Jenova cells would have that trait to change appearance.
    ...

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by theundeadhero
    And those injected with Jenova cells would have that trait to change appearance.
    I just think "Sephiroth" was lying about that part to convince Cloud that he was a clone. Was there a point in the game where "Sephiroth" changed HIS appearance?

    My opinion is that Jenova or rather it's limbs, changed form to become Sephiroth and lead Cloud to the promised land. Knowing that informing Cloud of his unfortunate experiences at SOLDIER would turn him, "Sephiroth" lied to Cloud about clones being able to change form. Actually, the "clones" are just regular people from SOLDIER who were injected with Jenova Cells.

    Jenova probably used this deception to cause every other clone to go insane and search for the "Promised Land" as well.
    Last edited by Mercen-X; 05-01-2005 at 12:36 AM.
    Jack: How do you know?

    Will: It's more of a feeling really.

    Jack: Well, that's not scientific. Feeling isn't knowing. Feeling is believing. If you believe it, you can't know because there's no knowing what you believe. Then again, no one should believe what they know either. Once you know anything that anything becomes unbelievable if only by virtue of the fact you now... know it. You know?

    Will: No.

    If Demolition Man were remade today

    Huxley: What's wrong? You broke contact.
    Spartan: Contact? I didn't even touch you.
    Huxley: Don't you want to make love?
    Spartan: Is that what you call this? Why don't we just do it the old-fashioned way?
    Huxley: NO!
    Spartan: Whoa! Okay, calm down.
    Huxley: Don't tell me to calm down!
    Spartan: What's gotten into you? 'Cause it sure as hell wasn't me.
    Huxley: Physical relations in the way of intercourse are no longer acceptable John Spartan.
    Spartan: What? Why the hell not?
    Huxley: It's the law, John. And for your information, the very idea that you suggested it makes me feel personally violated.
    Spartan: Wait a minute... violated? Huxley what the hell are you accusing me of here?
    Huxley: You need to leave, John.
    Spartan: But Huxley.
    Huxley: Get out!
    Moments later Spartan is arrested for "violating" Huxley.

    By the way, that's called satire. Get over it.

  14. #74

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    My opinion is that Jenova or rather it's limbs, changed form to become Sephiroth and lead Cloud to the promised land. Knowing that informing Cloud of his unfortunate experiences at SOLDIER would turn him, "Sephiroth" lied to Cloud about clones being able to change form. Actually, the "clones" are just regular people from SOLDIER who were injected with Jenova Cells.
    Oh, so true, so very true. Because we know for a FACT that the Crater is the Promised Land. I totally agree with you.
    Last edited by Luthien Rogue; 05-01-2005 at 02:36 AM.

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  15. #75
    Ghost of Christmas' past Recognized Member theundeadhero's Avatar
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    Was there a point in the game where "Sephiroth" changed HIS appearance?
    Sephiroth was a normal looking human five years ago. Then when you see him again in the Northern Crater he's mostly human but his legs are all tentacle Kishi style. At the end he totally morphs into the monster you fight. Sure, he's the last boss, but it's easy enough to follow that he morphed using the Jenny cells in him.

    Knowing that informing Cloud of his unfortunate experiences at SOLDIER would turn him, "Sephiroth" lied to Cloud about clones being able to change form. Actually, the "clones" are just regular people from SOLDIER who were injected with Jenova Cells.

    Jenova probably used this deception to cause every other clone to go insane and search for the "Promised Land" as well.
    Jenova wasn't just calling Cloud, she was calling all the injected. Your forgetting one thing though. It Jenny was free to use different limbs to do all these different things, then why didn't she just free herself and go after those injected with her cells. She needed them to become free. She was most easily able to seduce Sephiroth, making him want to fuse with his "Mother", because he was so infused with the cells. Sephiroth was her main concern. She needed to call the injected to him to help him so he would be ale to free her. They morph into pieces of Jenova through their Cell infusions.
    ...

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