What exactly happened to Nibelheim?

[Mirage]

Nah, that's not him. Zangan is shorter and chubbier.

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

I know you are talking about cloud20747, and you are not talking about Zangan. I also wouldn't bet on a secret identity since we aren't looking the same sprite or swapped palettes (Edgar/Gerrad in FFVI).

OKAY. To figure out what happened in Nibelheim, you examine Tifa's desk NW of the piano to read a letter by Hojo.

Other issues addressed in this thread: Zangan is the guy with a cape that trains people in Nibelheim. You can learn more about Zangan and Tifa's past by playing the tune on the piano during disc 2 with Tifa in your party (when Cloud is the leader). Press X,[],/\,R2+/\,R2+[],X,[],/\,R1+X,O,X,[],X.

Zack is a different character. Take Cloud to the Shinra basement after the Fort Condor Mission to get the scenes that tie up loose ends with them.

[Luthien Rogue]

I know you are talking about cloud20747, and you are not talking about Zangan. I also wouldn't bet on a secret identity since we aren't looking the same sprite or swapped palettes (Edgar/Gerrad in FFVI).

OKAY. To figure out what happened in Nibelheim, you examine Tifa's desk NW of the piano to read a letter by Hojo.

It was a letter from Zangan, actually. This is what it said:

*Spoilers, highlight text to read*
[SPOILERS]"Tifa, what's happened to our town? Was it all an illusion, or
just a dream? No, it was neither. I remember trying to get people out of
the flames, but not having the strength... Burning with anger, I went to
the reactor to kill Sephiroth."
"But he was nowhere to be found. Instead, I found you, collapsed
inside. I felt saving you was far more important than going after
Sephiroth. There were several others that were still alive inside, but I
was only able to save you."
"As I was coming out of the reactor, Shinra troops were just
arriving. I recall a scientist named Hojo was in charge. He ordered the
troops to gather up everyone still alive for the experiment. I didn't know
what type of experiment he was talking about, but I wasn't about to let
them have my dearest student."
"Putting you on my back, I headed down the mountain to the
village. I used the Cure spell on you many times."
"And started to head for Midgar to look for a doctor for you. I
don't like that city, but my Cure spells weren't helping."
"I decided to go to Midgar to find a doctor I could trust. I'm
worried about you, but I can't settle down in one place for very long.
Have you recovered fully? Are you well?"
"I wonder how many years have passed since then? I just got into
town again, but I can't believe it... The whole town is back to normal,
except for the strange beings with black clothes all around..."
"The town reeks of Shinra, but I won't go after them. You may
think I'm running from them, but it's just that I don't want anything to
do with Shinra anymore. Feels like time is running out."
"I'm sure you'll find this letter. And this gift for you. It
should come in handy. I can't even jump anymore. But I hope you continue
to sharpen your skills and remember what I taught you."
"To my most precious student, From Zangan"[/SPOILERS]

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

Yes, that's the letter on the piano.

There is a little known letter on the desk NW of the piano by Hojo. It's mentioned in this thread; I checked it out, and it's there; trust me.

Oh, and I would have marked Zangan's letter in spoilers. I'd rather want players go find it and read for themselves, although if you put it in spoiler tags, that accomodates for players who maybe lost their FFVII or something.

[Luthien Rogue]

There is a little known letter on the desk NW of the piano by Hojo. It's mentioned in this thread; I checked it out, and it's there; trust me.

No, there isn't. I thought you were talking about the letter from Zangan, but you're talking about the letter to Hojo. TO Hojo. Hojo didn't write it. I just went and played mah game and wrote it down:

*Spoilers, highlight text to read*
[Spoilers]

"Periodic Report to Professor Hojo"

1. Clone Activity Report

Unfortunately, no 'CLONES' have left this town this quarter. As previously reported, the 'CLONES' seem to be sensing something. But all they say is, 'reunion' or 'Sephiroth' and show no other signs of activity.

2 Confidentiality Report

A total of eight people have visited this town this quarter. Fortunately, none knew about the incident five years ago. Therefore, no one knows the town was restored exactly as it was five years ago. Our staff, disguised as townspeople, have improved their acting skills, and we do not report and problems at this time.

That is all.

[/SPOILERS]

Oh, and I would have marked Zangan's letter in spoilers. I'd rather want players go find it and read for themselves, although if you put it in spoiler tags, that accomodates for players who maybe lost their FFVII or something.

This whole topic is a spoiler. :\ If people who haven't played FF7 and don't want to know what happens come into an FF7 forum, then into a topic called "What really happened _____" they should hopefully realize that there's gonna be spoilers. Not to mention I said "Here is the letter:" So people have the choice to read it, or not read it, if they want. Buuuut, I will go back and edit mah post this time just for you.

~Rogue

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

You're right. I've only read it once, so I might have mis-remembered. Yeah, it was to Hojo. Not from.

I thought about the kinda topic this is, too. But, like the thing with the letter, I wouldn't want to see it here. I'd go play the game and read it there. Much more exciting that way.

just for you.

Does that mean you like me, or were you being sarcastic? If you were being sarcastic, I didn't mean to be an overbearing moderator on you. Sorry if I did.

[Masamune·1600]

Amazingly, no one has clarified a major error as of yet.

There WERE survivors after the fire. However, their fates are certainly not enviable. The 'CLONES' in the Hojo letter, those mysterious black figures: they are the survivors of Nibelheim. Like Cloud and Zack, they were treated with Jenova cells by Hojo. Given the dynamics of the Reunion theory, it explains why they were always following Sephiroth around. Zangan took Tifa to safety in Midgar; they were the only people in town at the time that were neither killed nor used by Hojo in his experiments.

Following the destruction of the town, it was restored and staffed by Shinra employees, to cover up the fact that the incident ever took place.

Zangan essentially disappears from the story. As Kishi noted, he is only seen in flashbacks. He notes in the letter to Tifa that he doesn't want anything to do with Shinra, so his absence is explained. His ultimate fate is never fully explored, so feel free on that matter to draw your own conclusions.

[Weimar Pluto Knight VII]

I first noticed that the cloaked dudes might have been the Nibelheim survivors when I talked to the ones in an attic this last time. It occurred to me that their speech pattern was familiar.

"You're from the Shinra?"
"Chinra?"

"Reunion."
"ion."

--or whatever they say.

[udsuna]

Yeah, but many of the black-clads were also former SOLDIERs. Since every one of them were also Jenova-cell infused. So, we have no sure way to tell if they were/are the Nibelheim residents, or just waiting around while Sephy was doing his thing.

[Camanche]

On a side note, I love all the stuff that makes you really think about the game, like the R=U theory of VIII. Anything juicy like that in VII?

Well, there's always the whole (SPOILER)L=J theory.


(SPOILER)But you'd probably be better off if you just ignore that one. It's untrue. As untrue as the whole R=U thing. And yes, Square has said that Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia after all the hooplah that was started over this theory when it originally came out.

[Squall of SeeD]

Yeah, but many of the black-clads were also former SOLDIERs. Since every one of them were also Jenova-cell infused. So, we have no sure way to tell if they were/are the Nibelheim residents, or just waiting around while Sephy was doing his thing.

The indication was never offered that the folks at the Reunion were members of SOLDIER. The one member of SOLDIER we see don a black cloak was only affected to the extent of putting on the cloak, even while he retained his normal speech and lifestyle. Seeing as how Zack was said to have not had a reaction to JENOVA's Cells, and the member of SOLDIER in Junon who only went so far as to don a black cloak, the indication would be that members of SOLDIER are not forced to subvert to the will of JENOVA/Sephiroth.

Besides, to assume the black-cloaked folks were anyone but the surviving residents of the original Nibelheim would leave the massive plotholes of "Why were the only members of SOLDIER we get to see closely not strongly affected by JENOVA?" "What happened to those surviving residents of Nibelheim and why weren't they at the Reunion?" as well as assuming that the only information we were given concerning members of SOLDIER -- which would suggest that they were strong enough to resist such control -- was completely false. It would require assuming massive ignorance on the part of the writers, and while they do display some instances of what is -- in my opinion -- stupidity, they don't leave plot devices they introduced untouched.

[Kamrusepas]

Couple of questions, probably stupid but I think I missed the answers:
Did (SPOILER)Zack really die?
And was Cloud (SPOILER) not a clone after all?

And then, about Tifa's piano, would anyone happen to know the notes on the PC?

[Squall of SeeD]

Couple of questions, probably stupid but I think I missed the answers:
Did (SPOILER)Zack really die?
And was Cloud (SPOILER) not a clone after all?

And then, about Tifa's piano, would anyone happen to know the notes on the PC?

(SPOILER)Yes, Zack is very much dead, and, yes, Cloud is a Sephiroth Clone, but all that means is that he was injected with JENOVA's Cells and infused with Mako. That's what it means to be a Sephiroth Clone, not that one is a genetic duplicate of him produced from his DNA. Blame the translators at Sony back in 1997 and the linguistic limitations -- particularly in regard to context -- offered when translating from Japanese to English for your confusion in regard to that matter.

[Kamrusepas]

So was it true that (SPOILER) he wasn't created five years ago?

[Ichimonji]

Of course he wasn't created five years ago. You see flashbacks from before then.