The Direction that Square is taking these days...

[feioncastor]

Okay, it's like this:

In 1993, my brother Jason rented Final Fantasy II for the SNES, and we played/loved it. A month later, he bought Final Fantasy for the NES for me and my other brother, Joseph. The three of us played FF1 probably everyday until we beat it, and then Jason moved out, and Joe and I went on to buy and love every FF game ever made.

I remember being so excited about FF3 coming out for SNES. Back when no one really had heard of FF games, we were playing them and enjoying them.

And then when I heard they were releasing 7, I was a bit confused since the last one was 3, but once I cleared that up, I was equally as exicted. Our playstation came with a FF7 demo, and we went crazy until the game was finally released, I believe in May 1997.

But now... Now everyone plays these games. They're huge. And squaresoft hasn't made a really good one like 7 since 7. I'm glad that people are getting enjoyment out of the series and all, but now people buy FFoS and beat it and think that they are FF masters because of it. They've beaten the watered down extremely easy version of FF1 and they think they're just the greatest FF gamers around. Well, we (my brothers and I) beat FF1 back when it was on the NES and no one had even heard of it. And now the little franchise that we used to be able to fit into our pocket has grown up. There was a time when FF games were so challenging that only the intellectual gamers could handle them. There were people who played games like Madden '95, and then there were people who played games like Final Fantasy. But now, they've made them all so easy that any schmuck can play and beat them. FF games used to be like an exclusive club that only a few of us could join. But now, anyone can. Anyone can beat DoS. And they've taken our "club" away from us, and all we're left with is these useless memories of way back when, the time when only smart people could play the games.

Jeez, I'm rambling again. I get really worked up over this subject.

But I'm curious if anyone feels the same way as I do. I mean, this a FF board, so chances are, I'm not the only one here who has been playing these games since then.

Feion

[Yuffie514]

But now... Now everyone plays these games. They're huge. And squaresoft hasn't made a really good one like 7 since 7. I'm glad that people are getting enjoyment out of the series and all, but now people buy FFoS and beat it and think that they are FF masters because of it. They've beaten the watered down extremely easy version of FF1 and they think they're just the greatest FF gamers around. Well, we (my brothers and I) beat FF1 back when it was on the NES and no one had even heard of it. And now the little franchise that we used to be able to fit into our pocket has grown up. There was a time when FF games were so challenging that only the intellectual gamers could handle them. There were people who played games like Madden '95, and then there were people who played games like Final Fantasy. But now, they've made them all so easy that any schmuck can play and beat them. FF games used to be like an exclusive club that only a few of us could join. But now, anyone can. Anyone can beat DoS. And they've taken our "club" away from us, and all we're left with is these useless memories of way back when, the time when only smart people could play the games. Feion

i disagree that FF7 is the only great game that Square has made . FF7 may be a classic , but FF8 is my favorite . in my opinion, it has the best ending , and the story is completely understandable , instead of leaving me with many unsolved mysteries after beating the game .

[Mirage]

What exactly do you mean by "the direction" they are taking? I think it is a good thing that a game appeals to more than the nerdiest nerds. I'm sure S-E thinks so too. Not only does it mean more money to the company, but the stories will be experienced by more people. If the same amount of people played Final Fantasy today as in the early 90's, I don't think Square would be able to make enough money from them. Games are much more expensive to make today, so you have to appeal to a bigger crowd. And admit it, the original Final Fantasy's battle system sucks :p. You can't expect people to enjoy it when they're used to todays standard. It'd be like selling a car from 1920 and saying: "Hey, this was high tech stuff when it was new! You should still use it!" Some people would be fascinated by it ofcourse, but not many. That's why they had to fix the battle system in DoS.

There's still enough challenges in the FF games anyway. If a regular playthrough isn't enough, you could always do one of the insanely low level games. I think that gameplay-wise, the Final Fantasy games have just gotten better and better. FFX-2's one of the games with best gameplay in the series. In my opinion, it outweighs the less-than-decent story and horrible music. However, the later games' stories just haven't appealed that much to me, I just't can't seem to get as involved in them as before. Then again, maybe I'm just growing old. I'm still looking forwards to FFXII though, I think I will like that story.

[Ichimonji]

Square may be going downhill to you, but it's going uphill for someone else. Basically for every one North American who dislikes Final Fantasy, five Japanese will think the opposite. I doubt Square really even gives a damn about what foreigners think anyway. They're making money in Japan, and still making strong money in North America and Europe. So complaining about this isn't going to change the way they make their games, and the fact that they're making billions of yen of this series.

Just as Mirage said, Square's focus is to appeal to all gamers. Not ignorant Old-Schoolers. More so to the newer generations, because that's how they're going to get all their money. As we get older our opinions are going to change about what we like, and some of us are stuck in the past. Well just so you know... it's futile to not accept change. Pointless.

So either tough it out and get used to it, or play a different series by a different company. It won’t matter to them whatever you do.

[DarknessFromAbove]

Man, I feel so young. I was just a little kid when FF first came out, haden't even heard of it untill I was about, I don't know 10 or so . . . Final Fantasy's one of the gratest things in the world, you can't tell me that it's off limits just because it is (or as you put it "was") grate. I mean, it's like saying that you can't go to China because your not Chineese stupid. Even if the story quality of FF games has deminished over the years (not that they have, with the exception of X-2 of course ) it doesn't matter!
Anyways I think Square is gonna' pick up the slack soon. They've got a bunch of stuff comming out and XII doesn't look to shabby So don't get so worked up over it, nothing's ever perfect. You've just got to deal with it!

[strawberryman]

I miss the old ones. Squaresoft hasn't just lost their touch with difficulty, but they've almost totally lost their ability to make good stories too...
I mean, compared to the new FF's the old ones are gods.
I do like the better battle systems, yes, but the storyline can shift a game from playable to crap- so...

worse storyline+ better battle system= sad, sad strawberryman

[feioncastor]

And admit it, the original Final Fantasy's battle system sucks .

I can't admit that because then I'd be betraying my own opinion. I feel that the original FF battle system is way more challenging than these new ones where you can rapidly press "X" through every fight. At least you had to focus on what you were doing in every fight.

I don't expect everyone to like the older FFs, I just want everyone who only plays the new ones to acknowledge that they know very little about the series and that the veterans like myself are better at RPGs than they are because most of these people who are like "OMG FFX IS TEH BEST GAME!! AURON IS SO COOL!!", I want those people to understand that I am more intelligent than they, and that I am better at strategizes and comprehension than they are.

You see, Square has forgotten some of the key elements to a good game. There's more to it than excellent graphics. And I didn't say that FF7 was the only great one. I said that FF7 was the last great one. The following ones were okay, but will never hold up to the precent set by games like Final Fantasy VI. Square has learned that they can sell games on good graphics without putting effort into the story, gameplay and music. The older games, there was no technology for graphics, so the games were all about the story, gameplay and music. But Square doesn't focus on these anymore because graphics sell games nowadays.

Someone once said "I've beaten FF7 and FF10, so I know what this series is all about". A series with well over 10 entries in it, and 2 games are enough to reveal what the series is all about. And FF7 was probably the most unlike any others, so, while it is a good game, it's not a very good example of what FF is all about.

Don't get me wrong; I like FF9, FFX, and so forth, but they will never be as good as the old ones were.

Essentially, I'm just saying that it is irritating when someone makes a thread called "Top 5 Favorite FF characters" and someone responds with "1. AURON 2. Tidus 3. Yuna 4. Paine 5. Rikku" Am I the only one is bothered by this?

Feion

[NM]

I don't expect everyone to like the older FFs, I just want everyone who only plays the new ones to acknowledge that they know very little about the series and that the veterans like myself are better at RPGs than they are because most of these people who are like "OMG FFX IS TEH BEST GAME!! AURON IS SO COOL!!", I want those people to understand that I am more intelligent than they, and that I am better at strategizes and comprehension than they are.

Wow! I love me too!!

So because you played Final Fantasy back in 1987 immediatly makes you better at all RPG's does it?

Going by your logic then. I've been playing beat 'em ups since 1991 which means i'm better at all beat 'em ups have faster reactions and better timing than someone who's only played the later Tekken games. And further more I demand they acknowledge my superiority over them!!

Stop talking rubbish and pull your head out your own fantasy world where you rule supreme.

If you havn't noticed gaming's changed quite abit since 1987. Production teams now have hundreds of people working on games, they cost more to develop, market, publish and distribute. Heaven forbid a company like Square-Enix make's some money from there product. As long as you feel like the King of all RPG players.

just because you completed Final Fantasy on the NES dosn't make you smarter than someone who hasn't. Your just making yourself look like an ignorant fool.

[Destai]

I enjoyed VII VIII IX and X the most and greatly enjoyed VI but the older ones I didnt enjoy as much. I dont think its much fault on Squares behalf and theyre still making games just as good.

[Monol]

ok personaly i myself was quite upset with the change in DOS (i wish they kept the magic names the same and the characters) but i was also impressed by the new stuff they added..the music aint to shabby and the graphics i suppose are nice (specially for the bosses) but any hoot personally when it comes to FF i dont play just for a challenge..the thing with FF is that its not just a game...its an experience and with DOS it gives you that expeirence...and square is not going down hill...you clearly just dont understand there motives and who there trying to appeal to....every final fantasy shouldnt have to be the same and the battle system for 1 was not "stragetic" but it was fairly enjoyable but ffX, X-2,8 have way more comprehention in depth in that there so deep that they even protain to the story..i thought that was very cool...(gf's, dressspheres,aeons..) and i cant believe im hearing a final fantasy fan say that SQAURE is going down hill..sure ff7 set the tone but it all boils down to what kinda games your into and square pulls that off very nicely...ff6 brought "character" into play and it appealed to gamers who wanted to be able to fall in love with a character and have that pearson be the main character...8 brought a realistic touch to square (which is why i cant stand why pepole dis it all the time) 9 was an awsome ff summarization of all the classic games...10 brought a far more deep romantic/religous point of view to the series (this can be said of tactics also) and 10-2...now thats where i get way more peeved..out of any battle system X-2 wins hands down...its perfect..if you want me to post why then ask cause im to lazy to type anymore than i have....all im saying is...i trust square...and i love final fantasy *bows*

[feioncastor]

Wow! I love me too!!

I didn't intend that. I know it came off that way, but I swear, I'm not here to cause problems. I'm here to express an opinion and see if anyone else agrees. If my intent was what you've stated, my goal would most certainly be to cause problems.

So because you played Final Fantasy back in 1987 immediatly makes you better at all RPG's does it?

Nah, I didn't play FF in 1987 because I think that FF1 was released in 1989. But I didn't actually play it till 1993, see:

In 1993, my brother Jason rented Final Fantasy II for the SNES

And note that FFII SNES was the first one I played, not FF1.

Going by your logic then. I've been playing beat 'em ups since 1991 which means i'm better at all beat 'em ups have faster reactions and better timing than someone who's only played the later Tekken games. And further more I demand they acknowledge my superiority over them!!

No, I just tire of what RPGs have become. It used to be such that only the intellectual types could play them because they were too difficult for the mainstream video game crowd. For example, no one in 1994 would've said "OMG CECIL IS TEH BOMB111!!!" because RPGers back then didn't talk like that. We used more civil means of expressing ourselves. People frequently talk this way about current FF characters such as Auron, Yuna, Rikku, Tidus, Sephiroth, Cloud, Squall, and so forth. Perhaps now you'll see people talking that way about Cecil, Terra, and the older characters, but you didn't see it back then. And not just because the internet wasn't around, but because of the people who appreciated the games. If someone was intelligent enough to actually play and understand Final Fantasy 1, they were far too intelligent to say something "FIGHTERS R TEH SH*T!!!". And now it's become so that any moron can play and understand these games that were once a status symbol of our sophistication. It's like when Mel Gibson played Hamlet in 1989. A disgrace to high class.

Stop talking rubbish and pull your head out your own fantasy world where you rule supreme.

Hehehehe. I can certainly say that I wish this were so. I've often dreamed of living in such a world, however, I doubt it will come to pass, and I can live with that just fine. Too much authority is nothing but trouble, so I'd rather not rule anything.

If you havn't noticed gaming's changed quite abit since 1987. Production teams now have hundreds of people working on games, they cost more to develop, market, publish and distribute. Heaven forbid a company like Square-Enix make's some money from there product. As long as you feel like the King of all RPG players.

I know gaming has changed, and I accept that. A lot of good has come from the evolving games. I hate to admit it, but I did enjoy GTA: VC. And that game could not exist on NES because the concept just wouldn't work with the graphics (and legal limitations) available in the late 80's/early 90's.

And I am remarkably pleased with all of Square-Enix's titles, and I thought I made that clear. I like FF8-FF10, but I feel that 7 was the last great one. That doesn't make the later titles bad. It just makes them not as good. Trying to measure up to a spectular thing such as FF7 is a lofty goal that I knew FF8 wouldn't meet, even before it came out. Just because so much was riding on FF8 to pass up expectations. So because of that, I was sure the game wouldn't be as good. And I was right.

However, I also thought the same about FF7 when it was coming out, but I was wrong.

just because you completed Final Fantasy on the NES dosn't make you smarter than someone who hasn't.

Heh. I don't believe that I am more intelligent than anyone specifically. I said that there's a group of people who could never beat a game like FF1 NES because they don't have the patience or intellect to do it. I am better than those people, and there are many of them. But just because someone hasn't beaten FF1 doesn't mean that they couldn't perhaps they haven't tried yet. Perhaps if they did, it would be no problem, but they can't because they don't own an NES, which most people don't these days.

And when you said:

Your just making yourself look like an ignorant fool

I believe you meant "you're" (as in "you are") rather than "your" (possesive).

Reasonable mistake. I've done it myself many times. It's just one of my stupid OCD-esque pet peeves.

Again, please don't think I'm insulting or degrading anyone specifically. I have nothing against you all, but I want you to know that when S-E made their games easier, they lowered the RPG standards and "cast Mel Gibson to play Hamlet".

Feion

[strawberryman]

Right now I really don't feel like typing much, so i'll just put two bits in.
Almost no FF game sucks. I put ALMOST because I despise X-2 and FF:MQ.
That is all for now, i'll try to post a more intellecual point later. *Yawn*

[feioncastor]

And I don't think any suck except FFX-2. But FFMQ is actually quite enjoyable... A bit too easy, but still enjoyable. Square's failed attempt at drawing in a new crowd by making an easy RPG while still making the difficult ones for the hardcore RPGers.

Feion

[Captain Maxx Power]

An RPG is only as hard as you desire it to be. In all honesty, if you were to run from every battle/decide not to use special commands/never use healing etc. etc. then it'll be harder. The whole idea behind such systems is that by utilising everything that's at your disposal and levelling up/getting better equipment then things will run more smoothly. We certainly don't want the type of RPG whereby your forced to level for many hours just to make it through a single dungeon (paging Dragon Warrior), it breaks up the continuity. In the "new-skool" way of story telling in FF games it's important to keep things moving at a steady rate. If it's broken up by hours of running around killing stuff and buying new gear then by the time the next plot device rears it's head the player may have forgotten exactly what is going on, and in the worse case scenario not care anymore. If I want to play a hard RPG then I'll think of ways to make it harder for myself. Things such as staying at a low level, using initial equipment, only using certain commands etc. If I just want to experience a quality game while enjoying the storyline then I'll play through it as intended by the designers.

[Ultima Shadow]

Jeez, I'm rambling again. I get really worked up over this subject.

But I'm curious if anyone feels the same way as I do. I mean, this a FF board, so chances are, I'm not the only one here who has been playing these games since then.
Feion

I agree on most points... but I think FF was great until FF9, not FF7. It was with FF10 it started to go down from great to good... and then FFX2 and FFXI made it go from good to average...

And admit it, the original Final Fantasy's battle system sucks . You can't expect people to enjoy it when they're used to todays standard. It'd be like selling a car from 1920 and saying: "Hey, this was high tech stuff when it was new! You should still use it!" Some people would be fascinated by it ofcourse, but not many. That's why they had to fix the battle system in DoS.

Ummm... not really...
FFX2 had the absolutely WHORST battle system and it was nothing but CHAOS! That battle system sucked in my opinion. FFX had ok battle system but nothing compared to the orginal ATB.

There's still enough challenges in the FF games anyway. If a regular playthrough isn't enough, you could always do one of the insanely low level games. I think that gameplay-wise, the Final Fantasy games have just gotten better and better. FFX-2's one of the games with best gameplay in the series. In my opinion, it outweighs the less-than-decent story and horrible music.

Nope, thay are all far too easy. Even the so called "super bosses" who were made for the 1 and singel purpose: to be challanging can be killed with a 1 hit-kill attack these days... or you could just make all your characters invurnable trough the whole battle with "cheat-items". I seriously just can't stand it when people use Zanmato to finish off the Drak Aeons and Penance and then say: "OMG! I defeated the hardest boss in the game!!!"
In my opinion that's just patetic...
FF8 had MUCH better gameplay than FFX2... and so did FFV... and FFVI, FFVII, FF9 and counless other games. I really don't know what people think is so great about FFX2s gameplay... and in an RPG, gameplay could never be enough to outweight the crappy story and music in FFX2...
I'm not saying that FFX2 is a awfully bad game. It's just an "average" game... and FFs used to be "great".

Square's focus is to appeal to all gamers. Not ignorant Old-Schoolers.

Awwww... that's so evil!!!

the storyline can shift a game from playable to crap- so...

You said it...

I can't admit that because then I'd be betraying my own opinion. I feel that the original FF battle system is way more challenging than these new ones where you can rapidly press "X" through every fight. At least you had to focus on what you were doing in every fight.

I don't expect everyone to like the older FFs, I just want everyone who only plays the new ones to acknowledge that they know very little about the series and that the veterans like myself are better at RPGs than they are because most of these people who are like "OMG FFX IS TEH BEST GAME!! AURON IS SO COOL!!", I want those people to understand that I am more intelligent than they, and that I am better at strategizes and comprehension than they are.

Yea, I hate it how magic have become completely useless in the later games. Why use magic when you can hit for 99999 with the normal attack? Argh... in FF4 and FF6 the use of black magic was vital... in FFVIII, FFX and FFX2 magic is completely useless. Basically... you just need to press the attack button over and over to win a battle in the these games. FF8 HAD great gameplay tough... trough most parts of the game. The many usefull commands and junction system made up for great gameplay... however... all offensive spells became useless from the end of disc1 to the very end of the game. In the end, Limmitbreaks became the only usefull attack command.

Well, you can't really say that you are better than them. In fact... playing all the "challnges" are sometimes much harder and sometimes require much more strategy than the older ones (when played normally). However... people never play "challanges" on their first play. And it's always the first play that's the best one. Therefore... challange on the first play is something very important in my opinion.... ummm... now... where was I? Oh, right.... so... you can't really say that you're better... but I don't doubt that you are.
(Man, I always get the feeling that I'm confusing people...)

Essentially, I'm just saying that it is irritating when someone makes a thread called "Top 5 Favorite FF characters" and someone responds with "1. AURON 2. Tidus 3. Yuna 4. Paine 5. Rikku" Am I the only one is bothered by this?

I couldn't agree more. So... nope, you're not the only one bothered by this.

out of any battle system X-2 wins hands down...its perfect..if you want me to post why then ask cause im to lazy to type anymore than i have.

Ok, then... now I ask you: "Why is the battle system in FFX2 perfect?"
(no matter what you'll answere... I'll be able to counter it! )

Hmmmmmm... I quoted... 8 times in this post... cool.