The lack of consequences

[Besimudo]

One of the major weaknesses of FF8 was its treatment of post-Adel Esthar. The seamless transition from monarchy to constitutional democracy; the absence of counter-revolutionaries; the absence of border disputes, considering Esthar's immense geography; and, the invariable economic trends that set the pace for the next 17 years - quite the contrary to its Earthen counterparts.

Clearly, RPG storytelling is enjoyed on the level of fairytales rather than histories; never the less, the story of FF8, both in style and imagery, is more parts Bourke and less parts Grimm. It is after all a struggle between Traditional and Liberal ideologies.

Anyhow, the rest is history ... Laguna, Ragnarok; Squall, the lone wolf.
The story board did manage to convey the message that the representatives of liberalism and ultimately revolution emerge in the latter part of civilisation. The world was created by the great Hyne, who was cast aside by man. Then civilisation was inspired by the Hyne's Children, especially the good sorceresses. By the time of FF8 the world has become rationalistic and thus mankind seeks liberation from their holy authorities.

P.S. If Esthar was France, Germany, Russia, China...the list goes on... Laguna would have been beheaded or exiled (decided by the ravenous libertarian powerbrokers) within 2 years of taking government!

[Destai]

Something

What?

[rubah]

um, well.

there *was* the whole thing that adel was trying to kill them all and laguna was a general hero?

and esthar isn't europe. so yeah. w00t.

[ShivaBlizzard8]

I agree that transfer of power was relatively smooth, but we don't know exactly what happened in the 17 years between Adel's entrapment and the Esthar we know now. It couldn't have been completely easy - it obviously was difficult enough that Laguna allowed Ellone ot be shipped off to an orphanage and Esthar cut itself off from the rest of the world in order to get itself together. I'm sure it helped that Adel was generally hated and the Estharian people were grateful to Laguna, but not everything wrapped up neatly - Dr. Odine - for all intents and purposes a mad scientist who worked for the old regime - still has power and performs experiements in the present. So some old evil people hold power.

[BG-57]

They could fill a game with the gaps in Laguna's story. Maybe they should.

[Skyblade]

I'm not sure about that. I've seen plenty of sequels/remakes that try to fill in gaps in the backstory only to create far more problems than they solved. Besides, I have the feeling that we didn't learn anything about it because there wasn't that much to tell. An insane sorceress is using her power to conquer/destroy the world, and a guy stands up and stops him. Ever read The Hobbit? Same thing happened there. The guy who killed Smaug was put into power immediately. That Laguna managed to hold on to his position just shows that he did a good job, so no one wanted to get rid of him.

[BG-57]

What we see of Laguna's story consisted mainly of highlights and turning points in his life. But there was presumably a lot that happens between them. I know I'd like to know more.

I think the plot of FFVIII (like many of the FF series) intends to be mythic rather than literal. The whole business of knights and sorceresses is like something straight out of the Authurian legends.

[Destai]

Sleep did me good.
Couldnt you compare Esthar on some levels to the tearing of the Berlin Wall in Germany?

[BG-57]

Certainly. In many respects the barrier around Esthar is like the Berlin wall, although the Esthar barrier is is to keep the outside world away, while the Berlin wall was to keep the citizens of East Berlin inside.

In a way the barrier emphasizes self-imposed exile of Esthar as a nation. Until Laguna, it was bent on world domination. Afterwards, it became a more withdrawn and inward-looking society. That left a power vacuum which Galbadia began to fill.

[rubah]

But the barrier is still there are the end of the game. You just have something that can go over it. and you know it's actually there.

The estharians still want their privacy, I'm sure. And the people of F-H were able to leave fairly easily, weren't they?

[seiyuimore]

True which make me wonder, why people of F-H could leave Esthar easily and Laguna didn't. And people also said that Laguna is having a VERY hard time shipping Ellone to the orphanage when F-H people could waltz to F-H without any difficulty.

[Besimudo]

"and esthar isn't europe. so yeah."

How very observant.
Besides, have you looked at China over the past century, after the dissolution of the Qing dynasty (1911)? Hint: That wasn't Europe either.


"Couldnt you compare Esthar on some levels to the tearing of the Berlin Wall in Germany?"

Most definitely not! The reunification of Germany removed the corruptive influence of communism, and hence brought Germany partially back to a constitutional regime...Note that the Republic formed was still not a monarchy, however. This means that Germany is void of an ephemeral godhead to direct its people. The destruction of the Berlin wall is comparable with FF7's fall of Shinra. That is to say... imposed regimes - communist annexation and business imperialism, correspondingly - were crushed by the loyal defenders of tradition. German's fought for their national pride and the heroes of FF7 rescued their world from extreme Capitalism, ironically through religious re-invigoration (nature and spirit worship were the primordial traditions in FF7, this is most vivid in Red XIII's hometown).

Ok, Removing Adel from Esthar is hypothetically speaking, like removing King Louis XVI from France. Both leaders were tyrannical, indeed. Removing the ancien' regime, however, exposed the people of France to years of suffering for a lesser entity - the state. Today, France is governed by petty politicking, businessmen and to an increasing extent, “Napoleon’s dream” the European Union. These forces are more corrupting to the French identity, both national and spiritual, than even the most heinous monarch. Why? Because, the proponents assert progressivism, capitalism and globalism, respectively. Unlike say, Britain, which maintains its physical godhead through Elizabeth II, France has become a parade of modernity: a culture that values urban living and philosophy, over the simple pleasures of country life and religion.

Anyhow, the main point is that: overthrowing monarchs and progressivism, in general are destructive to the delicate tapestry constructed over millennia that composes any given society. History shows us that all revolutions are violent and the regimes that ensure are less humane that the status quo. So, basically FF8 gives a poor example of revolution and a typically progressivist view of the monarch (sorceress).




Anyhow, cheers.

[DJZen]

So you're saying they woulda been better off under Adel?

[Besimudo]

In reality, yes.

In FF8's reduced format...well apparently not! That is why the thread was called a lack of consequences.

[rubah]

hmm, in reality I don't see that there are many sorceress' around.

It seems she'd be more of a dictator than a royal, though. To me anyways.