UEFA Champions League: National Pride

[Doc Sark]

There is a big problem amongst English football fans at the moment, and it concerns National Pride in European competitions.

I'm English, and when it comes to Europe, I want English teams to win. It's not only good for the clubs but it's good the players profiles and good for the English game in general. So imagine my frustration when wathcing the United game with my mates this evening and hearing United fans cheering at Chelsea being 2-1 down. It's pathetic.

First of all, if I was a United fan, purely from a common sense point of view, I'd want Chelsea to do well in the Champions league so that their schedule gets clogged up and my team might have a chance of winning the title. Second of all, Chelsea are an English team, and English football fans should root for them.

Now this is not exclusive to United fans by any means, Arsenal and Chelsea fans are guilty too, as I'm sure many Liverpool fans are. But really, has it got to a point where rival fans are so scared of facing their domestic opponents they would rather see them out than raise the profile of the English game and its standings in the UEFA Coefficients?

So I say, go Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal, you can turn it around and progress. And I say go on the boys in red, Liverpool for the quarter finals, but then you'd expect the latter wouldn't you...!

[NM]

My main concern is seeing Liverpool get through to the next round. But it would be nice to have all four English clubs in the quarter final. Yes even Man United.

I think Chelsea got a good result in the Nou Camp. It was only because of Adners Frisk, (who imo is one of the worst refs who take's charge of Europe game's.) sending of Drogba for to nothing challenges that allows Barca to get anything from the game. Until then Chelsea were looking comfortable.

Man U, I think are out. I can't see them beating AC Milan at the San Siro.

Arsenal. 50/50. I think they can score in the second leg at Highbury, but I don't think there defence is good enough to stop Bayern.

[gokufusionss1]

Man utd aren't English, they're barely Human.

[Cless]

I agree, Brits should be rooting for all of their teams in European competion.

[Cz]

I'm sorry, but I simply can't follow my rivals in the Champions League. In the current football climate, a team like Manchester United only really represents England in that it comes from the English football league, and is primarily followed by English fans. In that sense, they are no less an opponent to me as Bayern Munich or Real Madrid. In fact, due to the huge rivalry between the top clubs I'd say I dislike them even more. I don't have a great sense of national pride to begin with, although of course this doesn't stop me going wild for every England game. It's just that it is difficult to get behind a team that you spend the rest of the year jeering.

My reasons for taking this view aren't entirely rational, but then rationality isn't one of a football fan's strongest suits. Perhaps an analogy will help me explain.

Supposing Arsenal were to lose to Sheffield United in their F.A. Cup replay, yet Tottenham were to continue all the way to the final. Normally I'd be pleased that a London team had managed to get there, but such is the rivalry between our two sides that I wouldn't be able to cheer them on. The same applies to the Champions League, and I just can't bring myself to support Chelsea or Manchester United in the competition.

Liverpool on the other hand I'm indifferent to, and so I'll support them all the way if Arsenal can't manage to overcome Bayern at Highbury. Perhaps I should do the same for United or Chelsea, but I'm afraid I simply can't.

[Doors]

I love the fact that the furthest my country's clubs will get in the UEFA is the 2nd qualification round. Allows me to love all teams

[Doc Sark]

I see your point, and its a well made one, but really we should be thinking objectively rather than subjectively as fans of individual clubs. When English teams are successful in Europe, the Premier League is rewarded. We receive more places in the European competitions, giving smaller clubs the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage. Correct me if I'm wrong but at the start of the season England were represented by four teams in both the UEFA Cup and the Champions League. This is largely due to the recent success of Liverpool in the UEFA Cup in 2001 and Man Utd in the 1999 European Cup. Add this to English clubs' overall good record in both competitions and it bodes well for the English game.

Furthermore, our national teams' players are able to pit their wits against the best players Europe has to offer. I want to see how Lampard and Terry cope with Deco and Ronaldinho, how Ferdinand deals with Shevchenko and so on, but most of all, I want to see them win in order to stamp out any doubt that the English league is the best league in the world.

It's highly amusing to see teams like Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd all struggle in the F.A Cup (unless you happen to be a supporter of said clubs) but the F.A Cup is an entirely different, almost second rate (if you consider the mockery Arsenal, Chelsea nad Liverpool have made it this year) competition. Everyone roots for the underdog in the F.A Cup because as a society, Brits love to see heroes made and knocked down, what better stage than the F.A Cup but in Europe, it should be about English clubs representing, and English players (Arsene Wenger take note) furthering themselves by competing against European top brass. Personally, I want Man Utd to get through, because I want Liverpool to knock them out. Beggars belief? Maybe, but it would do the English game no harm whatsoever if the last four teams left in the competition were English, and I don't think it do fans of rival clubs any harm whatsoever to hold the jeers at the very least, when it comes to European competition.

[Cz]

I see your point, and its a well made one, but really we should be thinking objectively rather than subjectively as fans of individual clubs. When English teams are successful in Europe, the Premier League is rewarded. We receive more places in the European competitions, giving smaller clubs the opportunity to shine on a bigger stage. Correct me if I'm wrong but at the start of the season England were represented by four teams in both the UEFA Cup and the Champions League. This is largely due to the recent success of Liverpool in the UEFA Cup in 2001 and Man Utd in the 1999 European Cup. Add this to English clubs' overall good record in both competitions and it bodes well for the English game.

As a narrow-minded Arsenal fan, I overlooked that completely. That's an excellent point, and a great reason to root for our fellow Brits in Europe.

Furthermore, our national teams' players are able to pit their wits against the best players Europe has to offer. I want to see how Lampard and Terry cope with Deco and Ronaldinho, how Ferdinand deals with Shevchenko and so on, but most of all, I want to see them win in order to stamp out any doubt that the English league is the best league in the world.

I would argue that the best league shoule be the one where the most exciting football is played, not where the best teams are. International fixtures seem a more fitting stage on which to play out the titantic battles between nations that we're all so fond of. That said, matches between top club teams are just as exciting (if not more so) than those of international sides, so to see these all-star teams face each other is still a great prospect.

It's highly amusing to see teams like Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd all struggle in the F.A Cup (unless you happen to be a supporter of said clubs) but the F.A Cup is an entirely different, almost second rate (if you consider the mockery Arsenal, Chelsea nad Liverpool have made it this year) competition. Everyone roots for the underdog in the F.A Cup because as a society, Brits love to see heroes made and knocked down, what better stage than the F.A Cup but in Europe, it should be about English clubs representing, and English players (Arsene Wenger take note) furthering themselves by competing against European top brass. Personally, I want Man Utd to get through, because I want Liverpool to knock them out. Beggars belief? Maybe, but it would do the English game no harm whatsoever if the last four teams left in the competition were English, and I don't think it do fans of rival clubs any harm whatsoever to hold the jeers at the very least, when it comes to European competition.

Again, very well said. The trouble with rivalries is that opposing fans are always scoring points (no pun intended) off each other. Even the West Ham fans down my road were keen to jeer upon our defeat in Munich, and everyone was quick to turn upon the lone Chelsea fan in my class this morning. Perhaps if we saw our teams as working together for an English victory, the competition would take on a whole new meaning.

[Doc Sark]

Again, very well said. The trouble with rivalries is that opposing fans are always scoring points (no pun intended) off each other. Even the West Ham fans down my road were keen to jeer upon our defeat in Munich, and everyone was quick to turn upon the lone Chelsea fan in my class this morning. Perhaps if we saw our teams as working together for an English victory, the competition would take on a whole new meaning.

I mean, in all fairness, in terms of what we're discussing now, as when we discussed Englands hopes for glory in Euro 2004, you are the realist, and I am the fantasist.

I'm looking for some wholly left wing, better footballing community type scenario whereas you are seeing it from a more right wing, more realistic, every man for himself type angle. Both angles have their pro's and con's and I understand what you're saying totally. It is hard to be objective in terms of European competition and the good of the English game, when guys wearing the claret and blue from a washed up Championship club are attempting to score points off you.

You must just look at them and laugh.

I would argue that the best league shoule be the one where the most exciting football is played, not where the best teams are. International fixtures seem a more fitting stage on which to play out the titantic battles between nations that we're all so fond of. That said, matches between top club teams are just as exciting (if not more so) than those of international sides, so to see these all-star teams face each other is still a great prospect.

What I find exciting about European club football, as opposed to Internationals, which in reality are sporadic at best in terms of the equality of the match ups, are the individual battles. It's only really in European competition that our country's top players can pit themselves against the top players of other countries. You're unlikely to see players like Giggs, Shevchenko, Kaladze, Guerrero, Toure etc play at the highest international level, that being the World Cup, or even make a significant impact if their respective countries were to make it to the finals. Whereas you can see titanic club battles every season, which don't get any less exciting, you only really get to see titanic national battles involving players of the highest quality, for about 4 weeks of every two years.

[Shoden]

yeah i think its gonna be Chelsea and Srsenal through sorry Man U but they aint good enought to beat AC milan.

anyone rem the UEFA champions league match a few year ago

Inter Milan vs Newcastle United

i took note of the unfairness and abuse Lua Lua got and how Shearer got booked for standing up for a friend

same thing happened with Arsenal in Spain the amount of racism in Erope is disgracefull any racist players should be booked fans they should be booted out and get banned from a certain amount of matches.

this is one of the reasons i want Arsenal or Man U to win but Chelsea most of the players on the team arent even english!!! Arsenal has had some abuse from foreign teams and id like to see those racist scums faces when their teams are out and our teams are through
anyone agree about this point i made?

[Doc Sark]

this is one of the reasons i want Arsenal or Man U to win but Chelsea most of the players on the team arent even english!!! Arsenal has had some abuse from foreign teams and id like to see those racist scums faces when their teams are out and our teams are through
anyone agree about this point i made?

Did Arsenal field any English players on Tuesday? No.

Did Chelsea? Yes, several.

[Vaprice]

Man did you see the MAN U's go down to AC MILAN?!?!?!? thats just kinda unheard of....weird....flukish....but I want chelsea or Arsenal to be best!

[Doc Sark]

I don't know if losing to one of the top 3 sides in Europe would be considered a fluke in the footballing world, especially seeing as AC Milan are probably better than Man U. Man U were outplayed and outclassed. If you can't take your chances at this level you lose, simple as that.

Didn't stop me from wanting them to win though.