Gay Main Character

[DocFrance]

I agree with the "real vs. Hollywood" thing. Hollywood tends to portray gays as flamboyant and limp-wristed (for men) or butch and manly (for women). I know only a few homosexual friends, and they're - get this - normal people, with the exception that they have different preferences. Huh, go figure.

Like I've said again and again, I believe that the gaming industry would take the distasteful Hollywood view on homosexuality. I don't think FF7 would be as good of a game if Cloud talked with a lisp and called everyone "thweetie."

Actually, that would be pretty funny...

[Miriel]

OMG its been scientifically proven that MEN are born homosexual... there is a specific gene that determines that, though they dont find it in women.. get ur facts straight! DONT post crap if you really dont know what ur talking about. (though im sure there are a few cases like the ones u mentioned but more often than not 90% of the time they a born that way)

There is no research that proves the existence of a "gay gene" and no scientific evidence that suggests that certain men are born to be homosexuals.

Oh the irony...

[Defmetal]

Statistics can prove that gays are like normal people, and so far every gay I have ever met has had a negative outlook on life and tended to need therapy. I'd say 100% out of 100% would be a good statistic.

Science to this day has absolutely not found a gene that makes you gay.
This was something someone in the media said along the lines of "I was just born this way" which led to a research team trying to prove that you can be born to like men.

[Alice]

except...

there is a group of christians that search for this gene and if they find it in ur baby, than they abort it... obviously they have some scientific background and have some IDEA (as they are scientists who check) of what could cause a child to be gay. I dont think people would have abortions (specifically when they tend to be against them) unless they KNEW that this gene existed..

Ive also read in several reputable news articles through TIME, XY, OUT, and ADVOCATE, that there is a specific genetic difference found in the brain to where a chemical is there that isnt there in straight men.. this only applies to men hence why they believe it may not be true but... IT IS for men...

And like i said before.. japan and squaresoft are not hollywood... they wouldnt create a character thats so flamboyant. Most japanese tv shows/anime portray gay men in many different angles.. so dont expect squaresoft to go all hollywood.

I'd say 100% out of 100% would be a good statistic

unfortunetly defmetal you really dont know that and you cant say that, thats your perspective on their outlook. to say that is to generalize... maybe you just hang out with a negative crowd...? you think that might be it?

[udsuna]

What's with all these threads on homosexuality? I'm tempted to just put "actively bisexual, FYI" in my signature. I'm also a psychologist, thank you very much, and it's quite likely that I have more knowlege, both personal and academic, than anyone else here.

Anyways, to cover this as best as I can:

1. Homosexuality is in NO WAY linked to any known biological trait. None at all. No evidence of it exists at all. All reports to the contrary can, and have, been completely discredited by real scientists. It's actually less predictable than whether you'll be left or right handed. Identical twins, if one of them is gay, chances are the other will not be. Whereas both will favor the same hand, as well as most other traits.

2. Most homosexuals don't act any different than normal people. In fact, the gay/bi communities that I'm familiar with (Illinios, just a little south of Chicago) have an open contempt for what they call "flamers". I can't tell you what it's like elsewhere, though, I don't keep up with the current trends... any current trends.

3. Homosexuality has nothing to do with mental disease or responce to abuse. Although, it is true that some disorders mimic homosexuality. Such things as what the general populace likes to call "nymphomania". This has nothing to do with sexual preferences, or what a person might naturally be like, this is PURELY emotional damage.

4. Statistically speaking, about 1 in 20 people are homo/bi sexual. Regardless of race, gender, or background. Rich, poor, it doesn't matter. Genetics don't matter. You can't even differentiate strait from gay using CAT scans and blood-chemistry tests. Although you can use something known as "arousal responce tests"- which studies sex drives, using sexual photo/movie materials (porn) and some sensors.

Those are the four major truths you should know. Anything that contradicts the first is complete crap. Without any real scientific accuracy. All the "gay is biological" or "gay is psychological" garbage is just that, garbage. Made up by stupid people who need to feel justified in hating homosexuals. Back a few decades, studies exactly like them "proved" that blacks were mentally inferior to whites, because their brains were less evolved... or similar bull.

Granted, the second is purely my own experience, and it might be different in other parts of the country and the world as a whole. And since most behaviors are more socially structured (many people who "act gay" believe that they're supposed to behave that way because they're gay. Just as strait men and women are taught to act certain ways. Ways that differ from place to place)

The third is a compilation of experience and scientific studies, in most cases, there is no way to tell a person's sexual patterns based upon any fair psych testing (if you don't ask "are you attracted to the same sex?"- you'll never know.)

As for the study of the last, it might be partially incorrect. Statistical studies aren't completely trustable under these circumstances. In some areas, it comes to 1 in 10 (and some are likely lying). In other areas, it drops to 1 in 50 (and some are very likely lying). No way to be 100% certain on that.


Oh, and if I have to chose to rely on TIME or the American Journal of Medicine (where much of this stuff comes from)... I'm sorry, I know what I trust more. And, seriously, identical twins may have 1 strait and 1 gay (regardless of male or female).

[Squall of SeeD]

It pleases me to see a kick ass Post like yours, udsuna.

To defmetal: I just would like to add that if such preferences were a result of abuse and such as you put it, then what's your explanation for these marine animals and arctic birds?:

Linkage 1.
Linkage 2.

These are things occurring naturally. While you may argue that things could work differently for Homo Sapiens and these animals, these Male animals also -- in all likelihood -- didn't have the absence of their own societies' traditional Male role in their young lives (especially the Seals and Dolphins, as their social hierarchies have a single Male dominating the rest of the group; in the case of Seals, this one Male might have a harem of 100 Females) and weren't dressed up in make up and dresses by their mothers.

Your argument is flawed for various reasons, notably that you offer no support for your claim concerning the statistics you presented, nor any evidence that if Homosexual folks do have a tendency to be suicidal that it would be a result of being Homosexual itself rather than a result of ridicule or a state of anomy.

[udsuna]

Many thanks to you, sir.

Yeah, but even I have to admit that it's kind of depressing to keep falling for guys who happen to be strait . I'm sure that if a stait guy went through a dozen crushes without a single one of them having a remote interest in him, it'd start getting a little sad.

To quote Shakespear: "If you prick us, do we not bleed?"

Homosexuals are as vulnerable to emotional pain as anyone else. And, due to their lifestyle, gays are more likely to encounter said tragedy. (I don't include myself- bi comes with some advantages that make us a little less prone to such heartbreaks- sometimes the grass really IS greener on the other side of the fence)

[Madonna]

I'm a big fan of saying, "Hey, a gay character would be cool," or "No, keep it hetero, please. I want to fantasize that I'm Tidus kissing Yuna."

I think it'd be just as cool if they had heterosexual person or a homosexual person. Their more recent FF main protagonists seem to be more adrongynous, though.

P.S. - CidxVincent = very very funny. <3

[DocFrance]

"I'm a simple man, Marge. I like my beer cold and my homosexuals flaming." ~Homer Simpson

[Alice]

Thank you Udsuna for clearing that up with me...

You should write a letter to crazy people who abort babies because they believe they found out that there child will be gay.. I suppose I dont know whats going on ... but there had to be some research done to find that conclusion dont u agree? i mean people dont make that stuff up just to kill babies...

Well anyways for now ill agree with you.. but as far as i know ive liked guys my entire life!

[udsuna]

Thank you Udsuna for clearing that up with me...

You should write a letter to crazy people who abort babies because they believe they found out that there child will be gay.. I suppose I dont know whats going on ... but there had to be some research done to find that conclusion dont u agree? i mean people dont make that stuff up just to kill babies...

Well anyways for now ill agree with you.. but as far as i know ive liked guys my entire life!

To be honest, I didn't realize people DID stuff like that in industrialized nations . And, yes, there ARE people who would make somthing like that up... probably confused girls who don't want a baby and can't have an abortion because of religion. So, excuses, excuses. Besides, they wouldn't believe ME, I'm only a well-educated psychologist, not a toothless hick priest. Plus, I'm bisexual, so... maybe my opinion isn't entirely unbiased

As for "research"... well... there's some pretty popular "research" in africa right now that states you can cure AIDS by having unprotected sex with virgins. So, a great many HIV infected men are going out and raping young girls... Do NOT trust "research" until you make damned sure where the sources are and what the agendas are.

But, listening to christian fundamentalist research on homosexuality is like listening to the tobacco companies' research on cigarettes. At best it's a bad plan.

[DJZen]

TOTAL PWNAGE

OOOOOOOH! BURN!!

There's this crunchy granola type college course being offered at various hippy-dippy schools that has something to do with gay quantum mechanics or something like that. It's essentially a system of using math to prove that there's no such thing as normalcy, so you can't have "abnormal", meaning gays aren't bad. Personally I think it's garbage as I see no need to justify my own existance. I am who I am and that's alright by me.

The interesting thing about this course is that it talks about the faux acceptance of gays brought on by shows like Queer Eye, Will & Grace and Queer As Folk. What it boils down to is people feeling okay about gays as long as they're "not like us". That's the part that fascinates me. I always thought that Queer Eye had a minstrel-esque quality to it. It's as if the producers had the idea of making a show that's about nothing but amusing people with "gay" antics.

It's all about putting up barriers. Pointing out (and even INVENTING) differences just puts people in a tribal mentality. Makes people break down humanity into categories, into stereotypes which never dervate from the archetype. In this way a person ceases being a person and starts being a _____-person. Instead of a person, he's a BLACK guy or a WHITE guy or a GAY guy or a RICH guy. The adjective supercedes the noun.

Once gays and straights stop thinking we're so different (and really, we're about as different as people who like orange juice with pulp and without pulp), we'll be better off. Until then, it's probably best that game companies not try to include more gay characters.

[Alice]

I really disagree with you on that one DJZen, times have changed and although idealistically we wouldnt want labels.. i find them completely necesary and irreversible.. and theres nothing anyoen can do about it. You will have to accept the labels people give because believe it or not u even use them too. It engrained in human society.


Im thinkin this topic is just about dead soon

[udsuna]

Yeah, it probably will have to die soon. Que sera, sera.

As for labels, I think we need them, but I don't think we should divide people and concepts BASED upon them. One day, strait and gay will just be the difference between brunette and redhead. Nothing more than a word to sort a concept. As opposed to these poorly defined and pathetically biased crap. I've got my own label. 'Phobe (it's my slur against homophobes)... I like it, I want people to use it.

[-N-]

Pointing out that he was gay would be too much sexual reference than just falling in love and fact is society isnt tolerant enough yet. Working on it. Besides FFVII did the whole homosexual thing very well in my opinion.

This is a little off the current topic, but I saw this quote earlier and I was wondering where in FFVII these overtones were, because I play that game religiously and I don't think I picked up on any of those hints, unless you're talking about Cloud/Barret dating or taking Cid in the gondola.