"Abusing" the swear filter

[Raistlin]

I made a subfriends-only LJ entry about this roughly two weeks ago, and said that if most people agreed with me, I'd post it here. However, BoB told me to not bother, since they were already discussing it in Staff.

I recently asked another Staffer if anything had been decided, and he said no, and the discussion in Staff had just fizzled out.

So copy/pasted from my LJ:

From my understanding, the swear filter was originally put into place solely because Google demanded it for the ads to be put on EoFF, which Sean needed to happen so he could be at least somewhat reimbursed for the exorbitant amounts of money EoFF costs. He made it clear that he did not really agree with a filter, but it really didn't matter and money > principle.

Let me just first off make it clear that I have absolutely no problem with Cid's decision. I'd probably do the same thing if tGA took 4 terabytes/month bandwidth(or whatever it was that it takes).

However, my complaint here is the extreme lengths certain(read: one) staffer goes to enforce the "swear filter." I wasn't even aware that swearing was against the rules, merely that the filter was put in place to satisfy a third party. Actual enforcement of the rule, as far as I'm aware, does not affect the Google ads. So why is it so bad?

Anyway, what constitutes "getting around" the swear filter? Is "s***" or "$h*t" somehow less offensive than four skulls? It's the same word. However, I digress. I won't get into the arbitrariness(is that a word?) and irrationality of "offensive" words. That is for a future, possible EoEO, discussion.

I can't help but notice that only one of the Staffers even bothers enforcing the swear filter. Doesn't that tell anyone anything? Isn't it quite possible that this aforementioned staffer is following some personal preference of his/her own(yes, I'm not going to give away the identity of this staffer, though anyone who's been to EoFF should know who) rather than thinking of the board itself(which is an immature, FG-like mentality)?

Friends only.

Replies to my entry(some of them from EoFF staff):

Also, I think the swear filter was in effect for a few select words before the google ads. More words were added because of this.

And I don't think the google thing is relevant anymore. The way I remember it, google rejected him at first because of swearing on the forums, and he had it cleaned up. But I don't think he's that worried about it any more.

My personal opinion is to leave the filter as it is, and let people say what they want.

I agree with you Raistlin.

He said more, but it was a bit too specific for now.

I whole-heartedly agree, but whatever. I try not to swear on the forums anyway, so no skin off my back.

I think I know who you're talking about! It's that one guy, right?

Bleys also replied, but I'll just leave it at that he agreed with me. His was a bit too heated for now. xD

No need to make a big deal out of it in Feedback, because we're already talking about it in the staff forum anyway.

That was BoB. Even though he didn't say, I know he agreed. *pokes*

[Agent Proto]

We'll finally get to see Leeza make her case on this as she's the only staffer I know who edits most posts for "swearing".

[Raistlin]

*smacks Proto* when I left out the rest of your comment in my LJ, wasn't that just a little hint? Ah well.

[Leeza]

Another thread about me. How nice.

Discuss all you want as I won't be part of this. I've made my case in Staff and I've said everything that I'm going to say in there, where it belongs, and I don't plan on changing my mind on anything anytime soon.

[Del Murder]

Are you looking for a discussion about the issue, or just an answer to your questions?

[Agent Proto]

*smacks Proto* when I left out the rest of your comment in my LJ, wasn't that just a little hint? Ah well.

It's obvious. Really.

[Raistlin]

Are you looking for a discussion about the issue, or just an answer to your questions?

Both, actually.

Discuss all you want as I won't be part of this. I've made my case in Staff and I've said everything that I'm going to say in there, where it belongs, and I don't plan on changing my mind on anything anytime soon.

All I want to know is how strictly editting everyone who even remotely tries to "get around" the swear filter(with the exception of the f-word, which mostly everyone still agrees should be filtered) is in some way, shape, or form a benefit to the board instead of following your own personal preferences.

[Del Murder]

Ok, I will answer two of your questions, since the rest is about preferences and opinion and I don't really think it be necessary to discuss those with you, no offense. And the questions/comments about a 'specific mod' can of course be dealt with in pm form.

I wasn't even aware that swearing was against the rules

Swearing is against the rules. I don't know anything about Google ads since I wasn't on staff at that time, but this is a family friendly board, and sort of like a PG-13 movie. No f-bombs, but occasional other swearing may get through from time to time, as long as it isn't excessive.

Anyway, what constitutes "getting around" the swear filter?

Trying to spell the same word out without it being filtered. You mentioned some good examples.

I hope that clears some things up for you. If you have any more questions about clarification of what the rules are, please let me know.

[Raistlin]

It was clarified in my LJ that the swear filter was in effect before Google, but only the f-word was really concerned. I should've mentioned that in my original post. So no, that's not a question anymore.

However, other swearing, such as that allowed in PG-13 movies, were perfectly acceptable.

[Shlup]

I don't see what the problem is. Its not live we've banned anyone for going around the swear filter. Swearing makes Leeza (and probably at least some other people) uncomfortable, and she has the power to fix it. Is it a terrible thing that your swear word may change to skulls in order to make a very nice and helpful person more comfortable?

I see it like this:

Most staff members don't particularly care if people say an occasional swear word. Most of us don't change the word. Because only one staffer really enforces it I see it as less of a problem than if all or most of us did, because there's less censoring going on.

I think... a couple of times I've censored people's post because their language made me uncomfortable. And what's wrong with it? Isn't it worth the small sacrifice if it makes someone more comfortable? Yes, we still know what the skulls mean, but that mean's you haven't actually sacrificed anything, and at the same time allowed someone to be more comfortable.

By the way, Proto, smooth move naming names in the very first post after Raist typed all that without putting Leeza on the spot. Very classy.

[Yamaneko]

Does this really bother you, Wes?

[Shlup]

It'd better because hurting Leeza's feelings just for the sake of arguing is not cool.

And, for the record, if a member told me that someone's language was making them uncomfortable, and they were clearly serious, I would censor the person's language for them just the same. We're just able to do it ourselves.

[Dr Unne]

I agree with Leeza, but I don't enforce the swear filter because it's hopeless, and it's a waste of my time, and most of the staff doesn't care. I was editing swear words long before Leeza ever came to this MB. "Swearing = bad" has been the rule since the beginning. We never enforced it strictly because people didn't behave like 10-year-olds; people had respect enough not to belch profanities in every post. Bleys himself refrained from swearing here, for that very reason: RESPECT FOR OTHERS.

People often do behave (or rather, speak) like 10-year-olds now, and no amount of editing posts is going to fix it. Short of starting to ban people, nothing is going to correct this problem now. I'll just sit back and silently lose respect for people. Someday when EoFF starts sucking hard enough, maybe people will care again. Most people don't care right now, so there's nothing I can do about it.

[Loony BoB]

That was BoB. Even though he didn't say, I know he agreed. *pokes*

I don't agree that 'getting around the swear filter' is okay. I merely agree that once a word is censored by the vB, it's censored, and whatever it is censored as by the vB is fine to be left there. However if people make an effort to break the rules and go around the swear filter, then they're breaking the rules, nothing to argue about there. These are my personal thoughts, though, and I will whatever rule is made by the staff as a whole on any issue. You can't always get things your way. If I had my way, every newbie would have the chocobo7 avatar forced onto them until they passed 15 posts.

There will always be some words that are censored and some that aren't. Are you arguing over which words they are? There are three offensive words that are censored. That's, what, two more than there used to be a couple of years ago? Big whoop. A couple of years in therapy and you'll get over it.

I sometimes go in and censor words that aren't normally censored because people use them in offensive ways. Also, some people are very imaginative with their vocabulary.

[Raistlin]

I don't see what the problem is. Its not live we've banned anyone for going around the swear filter. Swearing makes Leeza (and probably at least some other people) uncomfortable, and she has the power to fix it. Is it a terrible thing that your swear word may change to skulls in order to make a very nice and helpful person more comfortable?

There's a distinct difference between using your moderator powers in order to make the board better and using them to further your own personal preference. As I said, that's not a very good staff policy.

Also, there's a big difference in posting, "that's bull" and "you smurfing smurf, smurf you you smurfing smurf smurfer." One is appropriate in a PG-13 enviroment, which is supposedly what EoFF is rated, the other is downright rude and has been a warnable-offence for as long as I can remember.

If EoFF is a PG-13 enviroment, we should be allowed to use PG-13 language. One sect of staff furthering their own interests by editting out swear words is an abuse of power.

Also, why is $h*t somehow more offensive than four skulls or whatever you use now?