Global Warming

[Super Christ]

I'm not a climatologist or even a weatherman, so go ahead and take this with a grain of salt, but global warming could very well freeze over Europe, or at least England. The idea is that England is as far north as say, Novia Scotia (I think) or Norway, but has a temperate climate because of warm water running up from nearer the equator, which carries warm air with it. The reason this happens is because hot normally runs to cold. The idea goes that as temperatures around the arctic increase, there becomes less of a temperature difference, and so the warm water stops flowing up there. Since that stops the current of warm air running up to warm England, it freezes over like Siberia. Something along those lines anyway.

Anyway, I can definitely see it in action where I live - when I was young, it never rained in winter, only snowed. The past couple years, however, during winter it has rained more than it has snowed. Hell, even the pentagon feels its a national security issue.

[Carnage]

If i want to drive a huge truck that spits out pollution like crazy, im gonna. because THAT my freinds is the american way.

[Big D]

On a practical note, it was, this morning, -6°C (21°F) here in Paris, around -9°C (16°F) in the outskirts, and it went down to -24.9°C (-12.8°F) at the coldest last night in France. Overall, we broke low temperature records from 1971. So you'll understand that right now, hearing about global warming makes me chuckle.

The same thing happened in my country in December. It was relatively cold and wet for the entire month. About a million people wrote letters to the newspapers crying :OMG IT R COLD N RAIN IN NEW ZEALAND DAT PROVES DAT THER R NO GLOBOL WORMING OMG!"
An anomalous, short-term weather pattern in one part of the world doesn't destroy the general trend of higher temperatures. Besides, more chaotic weather has long been predicted as a consequence of global warming.

All the algae in the oceans. Already responsible for about half the oxygen production on this planet. At least by the '02 estimates- I'm having trouble finding more up to date info. Boost the temp by a couple degrees, and the growth rate of these will almost double. Increasing oxygen by rates that might even become dangerous in and of themselves. But, it will replenish the ozone right quick. This is possibly the singular thing that controls most of the global climate changes, the changing of the algae ratios.

As algae grow faster, so too do their predators grow... balance like that is anothe side-effect. It's like how the seal population in Antarctica exploded when krill began to flourish after whales were nearly annihilated by humans. If there are more algae, there'll be more creatures eating algae. There have been a few experiments where large amounts of iron were added to the sea, to promote algae growth as a means of reducing atmospheric carbon. It was promising - the algae bloomed - but there were concerns about what effect this'd have on the wider ecosystem, i.e. nutrient deprivation, blocking sunlight to lower levels of the ocean, and so forth.[q=Super Christ]I'm not a climatologist or even a weatherman, so go ahead and take this with a grain of salt, but global warming could very well freeze over Europe, or at least England. The idea is that England is as far north as say, Novia Scotia (I think) or Norway, but has a temperate climate because of warm water running up from nearer the equator, which carries warm air with it. The reason this happens is because hot normally runs to cold. The idea goes that as temperatures around the arctic increase, there becomes less of a temperature difference, and so the warm water stops flowing up there. Since that stops the current of warm air running up to warm England, it freezes over like Siberia. Something along those lines anyway.[/q]That's the biggest threat from global warming. The actual problem would come from the polar ice caps melting and releasing huge amounts of dense, fresh, cold water which would disrupt the warm Gulf Stream currents.
However, this idea was used and exaggerated in a movie - The Day After Tomorrow - so the general public will now refuse to take it seriously

[udsuna]

Ironic, ain't it? Global warming lowers water flow which then proceeds to freeze over the coasts, constrict flow even more, and cause an ice-age. Truly, the laws of equal and opposite reaction hold no limits.

[Endless]

Maybe I should have put "global warming" between quotes. It's the denomination that makes me chuckle (and the fact it relies on meteorological/climatorial prediction over the next hundred years, when we can't forecast the week's weather, but that's another debate). I'm for the Kyoto agreements and working towards limiting pollution, it can't hurt, and if it clears the smog, it's all good.

[Shadow Nexus]

As far as I know, investigations blaming the gases we produce as a cause of the global warning are not definite, maybe probable, but many scientists defend this warming is a natural change, similar to the end of the ice age, for example. However, I believe it is important to take into account the fact it may be due to pollution, even if evidence pointing to it is not prefectly definite and such, it is still to be taken into account.

I also wonder about the political dimensions around this investigations. Seriously, I do not believe science is neutral, and I believe many interests are behind some theories. What do I mean? Well, not long ago I was reading in Libertad Digital (Digital Freedom...duh)- wich is the most right-winged news source you can get in Spain- how a journalist complained about the idea that global warming was a cause of gases, accusing this as an outdated theory that was kept by the left winged in order to blame capitalism and modern industry on this problem. Under the same suppositions, I could do an oposed accusation and say the attempted refutations of the ozone layer and the greenhouse effect are some capitalist scientific conspiracy, but I'd like not to stoop to that, I don't want to be the left winged version of Libertad Digital. However, I think we should take into consideration many of the theories around global warming may be feeded by interest: I am not going to say wich are and wich are not, because I do not know, but I'd just like to point that idea out, I mean, it's sad, but many times science is there to defend the interests of some. This could be another case.

About the freezing temperatures, well, now Spain is suffering a cold wave. It was snowing in Barcelona the other day, and that is not normal: however, this was due to Siberian winds coming through the Pyrenees and freezing our asses. I have been ill all week, I am not used to this temperatures, and I can't resist them very well. However, this has nothing to do with global warming. For example, this October it felt like damn summer, I could say this year autum was really short. Many people blamed this on global warming, then again, it was winds from the Sahara desert, wich are really damn hot.

What's my point? That just because in your country temperatures suffer dramatic drops and increases, it does not mean it is related to the existance or non existance of global warming. It may just mean it's a metheorological coincidence, winds coming from a cold or warm place. Spain, for example, suffers a lot from this, because we are between the Sahara and the cold north.

However, it can't be denied temperatures are growing. A few years ago I went to see my family in Chile, and we went to San Rafael, a glacier in the frontier between Chile and Argentina. You could see the rocks had been painted with years, the rock that was more far away from the ice had a "1976". It meant that in 1976, the ice was on that point, and trust me, it was really far away from the rock. The last sign was 1997, and the ice was close to there, but the distance was still considerable, of a few meters (It was 2002 then). OK, it may not seem like much, but apply those little meters of ice to the whole globe, and you can see it's something to worry about, and that maybe the Kyoto treat should be taken into account by Mr. Chimp.

[Doomgaze]

Mr. Chimp, as you so eloquently put him, does not care about global warming as he believes the rapture is coming

At the very least, a significant amount of his party does, and he's catering to them.

[Casey]

You guys ever consider China to? Population over 1 billion, emerging economic power, consumes twice as much as USA (soon will go way over that) and etc. Just imagine when China eventually catches up with the U.S. and also let's not forget India's growing economy.

We should just genetically alter trees so they grow at a faster rate then the rate we the world, cut them down. Also get alternative energy source then are dependence on foreign oil, like the hydrogen engine that's being developed right now, and yet being improved/implemented also.

I also want to say, even though Humans/ Animals have been emitting gases for thousands of years into our atmosphere. Maybe its not global warming, maybe were still in an end to a Ice Age, where the Polar Ice Caps still have yet to melt. It could be a normal cycle, just like earth quakes and volcanos.

[Super Christ]

We should just genetically alter trees so they grow at a faster rate then the rate we the world, cut them down.

That seems almost like a good idea. The only problem is that these fast growing trees would probably choke out natural trees, and I myself wouldn't want to be responsible for the extinction of the redwood, or the oak. Now, if these trees were also genetically engineered to be sterile in a reproductive sense, then it'd probably be a good idea.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

I only glanced through the thread and I agree it is a serious issue, the funny thing about it is that not much is being done. For example the USA alone produce 25% of CO2 ommissions. Also Canada, since signing the Kyoto Deal, well it increased by 17%. So yes it is a danger that is indeed affecting us, but we need to take more initiative *knows beign a hypocrite by saying that*. Fior example Iceland rellies on thermal heating. A major problem is car exhaste. If the hydrogen could be perfected and efficient than that would help greatly. A bad thing though, CFC's stay in the atmosphere for about 100 years, so it is not all gone, we got a while yet. Also there is no one way to ensure that the world will become pro-environmental. We have seen this in the past, for example DDt. Though a potent insecticide, it is now more or less banned internationally. Still there are places in the world that do use it. Like udsuna said, Nature, will eventually balance itself out, either by whiping out the human race, if it didn't already destroy itself by then. The scriest bit is that "The Day After Tomorrow" seems pretty realistic at times. I mean could we actually cause that? (My answer is probably yes...)

BTW someone mentioned Novia Scotia, did they mean Nova Scotia, and if so that is a province in Canada, and is more south than my New Brunswick.

[udsuna]

Yep, nature always finds a way. If we kept up current trends for another couple centuries or so, we'll see a climate much the way it was when our saurian friends roamed the earth. Of course, that could easily suck for us humans. We don't *really* know WHAT to expect of that, and it's possible we'll be royally screwed.
Personally, I don't think it'll be that big a problem... of course, I'd rather not find out in the first place. I'm in illinois- we'll probably be spared the scariest of it. The areas closest to oceans will be the hardest hit.
Oh, and SoL.... relying on that movie to learn about climate shifts is like watching Jurassic Park to learn about dinosaures.

[Super Christ]

The scriest bit is that "The Day After Tomorrow" seems pretty realistic at times. I mean could we actually cause that? (My answer is probably yes...)

My answer is definitely not. I have never heard of ANY "natural disaster" movie that hasn't made an outright mockery of physics.

[Destai]

There wasnt any doubt from the creators that the events in the movie could not happen in our lifetime. The point was eventually if things keep up it will happen. That was around the time the movie was released that global warming was discovered to be happening twice as fast as originally estimated.

[udsuna]

There wasnt any doubt from the creators that the events in the movie could not happen in our lifetime.

Umm... try "could not happen ever" and you'll be closer to accurate. That movie was at somewhere between dramatization and complete science fiction. It leans towards the latter. The floods and flash-freezes are simply impossible under ANY weather conditions. The random super-storms *might* be possible, but water levels, at least, take years to rise and fall.
And giant tidal waves are NEVER caused by the weather. Those are all earthquake related.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

Oh, and SoL.... relying on that movie to learn about climate shifts is like watching Jurassic Park to learn about dinosaures.

I never said that was how I learned about them. I learned a long time before I saw the movie. What I said was based on what I have actually learned in school, and what I have heard. My reference to "The Day After Tomorrow" was just to say, what if that happened? I know better than to believe every thing I see from the mass media.