theories

[Shayo]

im not sure if theres already a thread for this, but i thought up a theory while playing COM.

i was playign COM and Axel said soemthign that made me think "hmmm" and what i thought was that maybe all the unknown hooded characters, are old keyblade masters, and because sora wears black clothing in KH2, hes starting to loose his keybalde powers and is turning into an unknown, and thats where the BHK comes in to take his place with fresh new keyblade poweres being the white clothing.

anyways, thats just what i think, feel free to post your own theories

[Saint'Cloud]

well i think, that soras a evil turkey

[Destai]

I think the crossroads Sora stands at in the beginning of KH,CoM are the paths leading to four different worlds.Sora will travel to all of them and lock the door to kingdom hearts in each. At the end of KH:COM reverse rebirth DiZ told Riku that one path lead to light, the opposite path lead to darkness and the centre path leads to twilight (and thinking about it the path which riku and sora came from was probably also twilight). KHII will take place where the other path to twilight led (which is twilight town) There is a boy in twilight town (the BlondeHairedKid, BHK). This boy wields the keyblade(s) like Sora. He bears a striking resemblance to Sora. I believe (and the story has made several suggestions to suggest) that the BHK and Sora share the same heart. The hidden video at the end of KH was called "another side,another story" and it showed the BHK fighting off heartless with the oathkeeper(given to Sora by Kairi) and the Oblivion. The other side is meant to suggest another side of the same heart. I know its the other side of a heart because Vexen reached into soras heart and took a memory from deep within soras heart. but the memory didnt belong to Sora. The memory was twilight town which is where BHK lives. So I think Kingdom hearts will take place over four games and at the end of each the door to Kingdom Hearts will have to be sealed from each world (or grouping of worlds). Feel free to poinbt out any cracks in this theory.

[Ouch!]

Destai pretty much summed up my opinion on the relationship between Sora and the BHK. Though I don't have much of a clue what the other side of the heart exactly is, I'm confident that the BHK is the other side of Sora's heart just as Sora is the other side of his.

As far as the Organization goes, I'm not so sure about what I think of them. So far they're the most mysterious part of Kingdom Hearts II. There's a whole bunch of them that haven't been identified yet. #12 is the highest number we're aware of. Vexen was 4, Lexaeus was 5, Zexion was 6, Axel was 8, Marluxia was 11, and Larxene was 12. Assuming DiZ is 1 that leaves 2, 3, 7, 9 and 10 unmasked which only leaves more questions. So there's at least five that we don't know about yet. If 1 turns out to be someone other than DiZ that'd put us at six. Of course, there *could* be more. However, if I'm not mistaken, throughout Chain of Memories both Marluxia and Larxene are regarded as newbies, perhaps recent additions to the Organization. If that is true, it doesn't look like there's going to be a bunch of members with numbers above 12.

Also, we've seen Riku, Mickey and the BHK don the cloaks that are the trademark of the Organization. That might mean that they have joined the Organization, which I believe Riku and Mickey, at least, have. Or for some reason they're as many suggest "under-cover." Seeing as Riku meets with DiZ at the crossroads at the end of Reverse/Rebirth, I get the feeling that DiZ would know why he and Mickey wear the cloaks, so I just get the feeling that the under-cover business is bunk.

There's also the "Enigmatic Man" from Final Mix (and perhaps the Unknown that led Sora to Castle Oblivion?) He could be Unknown #2, 3, 7, 9 or 10 or he could be another. I believe it was Vexen who said he knew "an" Ansem, but not the Ansem that Riku knew. I get the odd feeling that this Enigmatic Man is the body which the Ansem we know cast off. He seems fairly important to me, so I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be DiZ's right-hand man.

As far as the Organization's affiliation with the darkness or light, I'm not quite so sure. Though they suggested that they are neither, they seem to use the darkness more than the light and DiZ made it clear that nobody has been able to manage a balance between light and darkness, the twilight. The only inkling to their motives is the Unknown who manipulates the Beast by holding the magical rose that the Beast is bound to. He uses the Beast against Sora, as it seems, so that would suggest that they want to stop Sora, but I don't think we have any knowledge of why they would do that.

[Destai]

The hidden video at the end of KH final Mix was changed from another side another story to Deep dive. It showed much more of the organization and BHK passing someone who greatly resembled Riku. Throughout the video there was a countdown from the number 13. I think this means theres 13 members of the organization but I have no real evidence.
Its sensible to think that Riku and mickey would join the organization as the organization most commonly believed purpose is to study the heart from an unbiased view, no on the side of darkness or light. Just like Riku and at the end of reverse rebirth micky showed interest in Rikus method of accepting and controlling darkness and light.
Marluxia wanted to control darkness to overthrow the organization and Zexion wanted ot use Rikus darkness to counter act Marluxia so I wouldnt say the organization have any preference to either or.
When Vexen said he knew another side of Ansem I think he was referring to DiZ. I believe that DiZ is the leader of the organization and is also the body Ansem cast off. I think it will help if someone figures out what exactly DiZ stands for.

[Destai]

Also the creatures that act and seem similar to heartless except theyre coloured silver are called "NOBODIES" which possibly coincidental was a term used for the unknowns and naminé. I think theyre the lights (or twilights) version of the heartless(the heartless being dark)I really am trying to fill very large gaps in story. It doesnt all make sense. I know that the nobodies are to BHK what the Heartless are to Sora at least in a sense. The first part of Kingdom hearts right after the opening where Sora is alone on large pedatals and must choose the keyblades characteristics etc. (I think its called dive into the heart). Well in a trailer for KH2 the BHK was seen going through a similar process but at the end instead of a large darkside (heartless) rising from the ground to fight Sora, A large Nobody (the same size as Darkside) rised to fight BHK.
Edit: These are the 13 points which flash in the "deep dive" video. !3 may be the number of reports ansem made.

[Ouch!]

The lighter coloured Heartless look-alikes, as far as I know, have been named the Dusk, not Nobodies, which refers to the Unknowns as you mentioned, or the "non-existant ones" as the quote from Deep Dive: Another Side, Another Story calls them. "Who is Nobody? They are the non-existant ones." That would leave me to believe that the Unknowns aren't complete. As the Enigmatic Man says in Final Mix they are just mere shells. To me, that seems to be a blaring sign that they have no heart. Perhaps they're just bodies without a heart, which would explain why Ansem's body is part of the Organization.

I also wouldn't rule out the possibility that DiZ is Ansem's body. When Riku finally recognized that DiZ was not Ansem after he embraced the darkness he commented that DiZ smelled very similar to Ansem but he could tell the difference.

As far as 13 members of the Organization would go, that'd make sense with the allusions to the Thirteenth Order.

I also think it's blaringly obvious that the other playable character that Square Enix mentioned is the BHK.

[Destai]

The lighter coloured Heartless look-alikes, as far as I know, have been named the Dusk, not Nobodies, which refers to the Unknowns as you mentioned, or the "non-existant ones" as the quote from Deep Dive: Another Side, Another Story calls them. "Who is Nobody? They are the non-existant ones." That would leave me to believe that the Unknowns aren't complete. As the Enigmatic Man says in Final Mix they are just mere shells. To me, that seems to be a blaring sign that they have no heart. Perhaps they're just bodies without a heart, which would explain why Ansem's body is part of the Organization.

I also wouldn't rule out the possibility that DiZ is Ansem's body. When Riku finally recognized that DiZ was not Ansem after he embraced the darkness he commented that DiZ smelled very similar to Ansem but he could tell the difference.

As far as 13 members of the Organization would go, that'd make sense with the allusions to the Thirteenth Order.

I also think it's blaringly obvious that the other playable character that Square Enix mentioned is the BHK.

You're right, they are called Dusk, my mistake . Im noticing that Dusk appear in the place Riku called dawn. DiZ called the road leading to twilight (or twilight town that riku and the king followed between light and dark) the path to Dusk I think and Riku told him it would lead to Dawn.
You have the translations of the unknown from Final Mix? Can I see it? Was Ansems body mentioned in the tranlslations and is his body definitely with the unknowns? In the attatchment in the last post it mentioned something about ENDLESS in caps lock and I think they sound similar to Heartless and Dusk.

[Ouch!]

All I've got is the four lines the Enigmatic Man says to Sora right before (or was it after?) they fight:
"Ah... It seems you are special too"
"You look like him."
"Which means, you are not complete."
"I am... a mere shell"

That's not including what Sora says. All I can remember is that he asks the Enigmatic Man something like "What are you?" before he says the final line.

The only mention of Ansems body in Kingdom Hearts that I know of was in the Ansem Reports where he wrote that he had cast of his body to delve into darkness. The only reason we have to believe that Ansem's body is actually part of the Organization is that Vexen said that he knew "an" Ansem. That and the scene in the KH2 trailer where there's one Unknown talking to DiZ. I'm not sure which one of them is talking but one of them addresses the other as Ansem. I think that puts it a bit above mere speculation.

I don't know much about anything that ENDLESS might be refering to. I can't seem to find it on the Thirteen Points chart that you have up there either.

I do notice, however, that it recognizes the Nobodies as the "third enemy." I'm not quite sure where to go with that, though it would suggest that the Organization certainly doesn't plan on helping Sora. On the other hand, DiZ didn't seem particularly determined to stop Riku either. In fact, he goaded Riku onwards. That, to me, is the biggest mystery. Where the crap does the Organization stand? Another question comes to mind: Do they stand together?

Marluxia, Larxene and Vexen sought to overthrow DiZ and take control of the Organization. Axel was supposed to stop them, to root out the traiters. But then why would he have the replica Riku attack Zexion? Zexion never betrayed the Organization. It makes me wonder if Axel really is working with DiZ or if he's just become a rogue agent.

[Pheesh]

i already said that theory in another thread and i still think it's a big possibility.

Peace out and :rock:
EE

[Destai]

All I've got is the four lines the Enigmatic Man says to Sora right before (or was it after?) they fight:
"Ah... It seems you are special too"
"You look like him."
"Which means, you are not complete."
"I am... a mere shell"

That's not including what Sora says. All I can remember is that he asks the Enigmatic Man something like "What are you?" before he says the final line.

The only mention of Ansems body in Kingdom Hearts that I know of was in the Ansem Reports where he wrote that he had cast of his body to delve into darkness. The only reason we have to believe that Ansem's body is actually part of the Organization is that Vexen said that he knew "an" Ansem. That and the scene in the KH2 trailer where there's one Unknown talking to DiZ. I'm not sure which one of them is talking but one of them addresses the other as Ansem. I think that puts it a bit above mere speculation.

I don't know much about anything that ENDLESS might be refering to. I can't seem to find it on the Thirteen Points chart that you have up there either.

I do notice, however, that it recognizes the Nobodies as the "third enemy." I'm not quite sure where to go with that, though it would suggest that the Organization certainly doesn't plan on helping Sora. On the other hand, DiZ didn't seem particularly determined to stop Riku either. In fact, he goaded Riku onwards. That, to me, is the biggest mystery. Where the crap does the Organization stand? Another question comes to mind: Do they stand together?

Marluxia, Larxene and Vexen sought to overthrow DiZ and take control of the Organization. Axel was supposed to stop them, to root out the traiters. But then why would he have the replica Riku attack Zexion? Zexion never betrayed the Organization. It makes me wonder if Axel really is working with DiZ or if he's just become a rogue agent.

Thanks for the translations, hes talking about BHK isnt he? When he says you look like him.
I checked the lines at the end of reverse rebirth. DiZ calls the twilight road "nightfall" not dusk but I wonder if theres still a connection to Dusk and Riku calling it the road to dawn.
The endless is in caps on the VII point under it is something saying "what took you so long kairi?" and a line drawing across from endless leads to the word "heartless both of which are in the VII point.
If you replay the end trailer in reverse rebirth you cam see clearly that DiZ's skin is the same colour as Ansems as are his glowing orange eyes.
By the end of CoM Zexions plans were to control Riku to counteract Marluxia. Even when Marluxia died maybe greed got the better of him? It doesnt strike me as unlikely. Though he does seem to have a plan but Im guessing that with KH2 screenshots the way he lectured on before fighting BHK. Wether he was explaining the organizations plans or his own....

[Destai]

In the Deep Dive trailer Im pretty sure the Dual wielding unknown or the blonde haired kid gave Riku the Oathkeeper keyblade. Now Im just confussed

[Pheesh]

i think duel wielding unknown is the shell of the bhk. The same thing that happened to sora (when he became a heartless) most probably happened to the bhk. For those of you that dont know my theories on the game i may as well update them....sorry ouch, you've probably heard them a thousand times :P

I think that all the unknowns were previous keybladers. Think about it. The infromed people (ansem, mickey, leon ect.) would never have known about the keyblades existence if it hadn't been recorded from another time. it may be centuaries before this games happenings but maybe that explains the unknowns being so desperate that sora has come along. this may be there chance to either die properly or be reunited with there hearts.

I also think that they were taken from there bodies the same way that sora was when he unlocked his heart (they may not unlocked there heart but something like they had there hearts taken. Now your going to say then why arent there unknowns for every heartless victim in the world and i think the answer to that is, because the unknowns are all such great fighters that there shells couldn't give up looking for there bodies and were taken into the organization.

Peace out and :rock:
EE

[Jack - Blademaster]

In the Deep Dive trailer Im pretty sure the Dual wielding unknown or the blonde haired kid gave Riku the Oathkeeper keyblade. Now Im just confussed

There is one major thing.If he gave him Oathkeeper then how the hell did he have two Keyblades once again two seconds after that?

[Destai]

There is one major thing.If he gave him Oathkeeper then how the hell did he have two Keyblades once again two seconds after that?

I dont think Deep dive takes place before KH2. Well..I dont see reason to believe that. BHK only got his keyblades in KH2. You can see him in one of the trailers undergoing the dive into the heart the same way Sora did at the start of KH.