On Freedom of Speech

[AkiraMakie]

Say he goes to get a job, but the percentage of, say, african americans has not ben filled for that job, but they've already got a decent amount of white guys working there. Say him, and a african american guy both apply for that same job...the african american guy, going by affirmative action, will get the job, and he will be pushed aside...because he's white. Of course, it has a good intention, and it's not because him specifically, but it's still because he happened to be then and there, and he was white.

I think that's wrong, and I think who's best qualified should be hired reguardless. Because really Affirmative Action is pure and utter racism, but for a good cause (well that may be a matter of opinion). As much as I dislike it and think it's screwed up, I think it's still needed from what I see around me where I live, and that's why I support it.

If I believed we could get rid of it and have people hired fairly based upon qualifications and nothing else, than I'd be against it, but in areas like this, I just don't see it happening.

I understand how AA works. I didnt ask him that. i asked for hime to give a personal example of being turned down something because of his race. Secondly, if you were turned down because of your race, you wouldnt know it cause the employer wouldnt tell you that. So how would you know weather or not the black person was more or less qualified than yourself. You could only assume, and assumptions dont mean a damn thing.

And yes, i think AA is a nesassary evil. If people hired fairly, we wouldnt need it. ShunNakamura keeps saying that Quotas are not the way, but i dont see any other way. other than AA , there is no other way to make sure people hired fairly. If there was, i would be all for it, but there isnt. And on top of that, through out all of this, no one has even mentioned(cept for myself) thatAA works in reverse as well.

If a white college student wanted to go to a prodominately black college he's almost certain to get in over other higher qualified black students. Same goes for prodominately black work places. But not one even mentions that. That make is seem like its black peoples fault that we even have AA, but it was so the playing field would be fair. I personally think that if AA was suddenly ended, it would go back to being the way it was before. But Sas doesnt even think that racism is as bad as we say. On top of that, he used japan's racism as an example. But th thing about that is, the japanese dont like others based on Nationality. If you were japanese, you would be accepted. But in america, the racism is differnt. Im not another nationality, im American. But in america, they dont judge by Nationality. They judge you by skin color. Which is a differnt type of racism all together. Im not accepted in my own native country. Which i believe is a more dangerous type of racism.

[DMKA]

I understand how AA works. I didnt ask him that. i asked for hime to give a personal example of being turned down something because of his race. Secondly, if you were turned down because of your race, you wouldnt know it cause the employer wouldnt tell you that. So how would you know weather or not the black person was more or less qualified than yourself. You could only assume, and assumptions dont mean a damn thing.

And yes, i think AA is a nesassary evil. If people hired fairly, we wouldnt need it. ShunNakamura keeps saying that Quotas are not the way, but i dont see any other way. other than AA , there is no other way to make sure people hired fairly. If there was, i would be all for it, but there isnt. And on top of that, through out all of this, no one has even mentioned(cept for myself) thatAA works in reverse as well.

If a white college student wanted to go to a prodominately black college he's almost certain to get in over other higher qualified black students. Same goes for prodominately black work places. But not one even mentions that. That make is seem like its black peoples fault that we even have AA, but it was so the playing field would be fair. I personally think that if AA was suddenly ended, it would go back to being the way it was before. But Sas doesnt even think that racism is as bad as we say. On top of that, he used japan's racism as an example. But th thing about that is, the japanese dont like others based on Nationality. If you were japanese, you would be accepted. But in america, the racism is differnt. Im not another nationality, im American. But in america, they dont judge by Nationality. They judge you by skin color. Which is a differnt type of racism all together. Im not accepted in my own native country. Which i believe is a more dangerous type of racism.

Ah ok I get you.

Japan isn't "racist" in the sense that we think of racism here in the United States. See, the older generations of Japanese people, who were alive under the rule of the Empire, had an insane emperor who believed in "racial purity" (the Japanese infact had this ideology before the Germans did), but he didn't hate other people or want to kill them like the Nazis did, he just preached this BS that the Japanese were the superior race, seconded by the rest of Asians, and then everyone else was below them. Some people ate it up, some didn't. Most people that were born after 1970 are obsessed with people who aren't Japanese, and marketers will get black, white, and hispanic americans to be in YTV commercials and stuff in Japan, and that helps sell stuff...yeah. It's kind of like here we have older people who are all against interracial relationships...yeah, same principle.

But anyway...I better not get any further off topic (me and my Japan obsession), yeah, I think you stated my exact feelings with "a necessary evil". Sucks that it has to be that way.

[Sasquatch]

I understand how AA works. I didnt ask him that. i asked for hime to give a personal example of being turned down something because of his race.

A personal example? C'mon, I'm hardly 20 years old, I've spent most of the past two years I've been out of High School serving in the Army. When I start looking through jobs, etc. I'm sure I'll have more examples. But how about grants, scholarships, and the eligibility for loans that are restricted to those of races other than white? You ever see a white guy get an NAACP scholarship? We had two black people in our graduating class, and neither of them were in the top HALF, and both got at least one scholarship each. Not for sports, not for academics, not for community service, not for church...but because they were black. Now, how do you think the white guy that was third in the class felt when he saw that he was just barely not good enough to get most of the grants and scholarships, but if he was black, he wouldn't have to work for them? Hell, how would you feel if you made good grades, aced all your tests, and found out some guy in your school got a scholarship just because he was white?

Secondly, if you were turned down because of your race, you wouldnt know it cause the employer wouldnt tell you that. So how would you know weather or not the black person was more or less qualified than yourself. You could only assume, and assumptions dont mean a damn thing.

You would only be able to know if you knew the person, or knew the employer, on a personal level, or had worked with the person, and you knew (or was told) of his qualifications, or lack thereof. Or, actually, it's easy to judge sometimes.

And yes, i think AA is a nesassary evil. If people hired fairly, we wouldnt need it. ShunNakamura keeps saying that Quotas are not the way, but i dont see any other way. other than AA , there is no other way to make sure people hired fairly.

How do you know if people don't hire fairly? AA has been around all your life. I've already said this before, but if there were no AA, and employers were given the freedom to choose who they want to hire, and a black person was denied a job based solely upon skin color, he would sue the hell out of the business. So even if somebody is racist (which, of course, everybody is, right?), they wouldn't let that play a role in their hiring selection. Quotas are definitely not the way--you don't see any other way, but that doesn't mean there aren't other, better ways. There are checks and balances all over the place that ensure fair hiring. Hiring is fair. And it will be fair, because people will play the race card at every possible chance, and employers know this.

If a white college student wanted to go to a prodominately black college he's almost certain to get in over other higher qualified black students. Same goes for prodominately black work places. But not one even mentions that. That make is seem like its black peoples fault that we even have AA, but it was so the playing field would be fair.

First off, what white student would want to go to a black college? He'd get his ass kicked, for one thing. And black people go to black colleges not for the education, but for the name and the environment. It looks good to other black people that they went to such-and-such black college.

Second... Are you sure it would apply to white people as well? You have a source for that? Even so, when would it be appropriate? If a white guy went somewhere to apply for a job, and there was not one black person working there who was less qualified than he was, and he was turned down...would the white guy say "damn, I just ain't good enough", or would he say "you MUST hire me because I'm WHITE!"?

On top of that, he used japan's racism as an example. But th thing about that is, the japanese dont like others based on Nationality. If you were japanese, you would be accepted. But in america, the racism is differnt. Im not another nationality, im American. But in america, they dont judge by Nationality. They judge you by skin color. Which is a differnt type of racism all together. Im not accepted in my own native country. Which i believe is a more dangerous type of racism.

That's because Japan is mainly, hmmm let's see, Japanese. America is a mix of many different colors, cultures, and languages. You can't look at somebody in America and say "That guy isn't from here!" Unless you're in Wisconsin and the guy's speaking Mandarin or something, then you don't know. You aren't any other nationality, but you are the descendant of another nationality, and it's easy to see that your ancestors didn't come over as settlers from England.

Affirmative Action is far from a "necessary evil". Quota-based hiring systems are wrong, period. Not necessary, not needed, not helping, just wrong. As a black person, you should be offended that jobs are being given to you.

[Gnostic Yevon]

A personal example? C'mon, I'm hardly 20 years old, I've spent most of the past two years I've been out of High School serving in the Army. When I start looking through jobs, etc. I'm sure I'll have more examples. But how about grants, scholarships, and the eligibility for loans that are restricted to those of races other than white? You ever see a white guy get an NAACP scholarship? We had two black people in our graduating class, and neither of them were in the top HALF, and both got at least one scholarship each. Not for sports, not for academics, not for community service, not for church...but because they were black. Now, how do you think the white guy that was third in the class felt when he saw that he was just barely not good enough to get most of the grants and scholarships, but if he was black, he wouldn't have to work for them? Hell, how would you feel if you made good grades, aced all your tests, and found out some guy in your school got a scholarship just because he was white?

That's true, but you can get scholarships for lots of things.

There's a scholarship for athletic woman.
http://www.studentawards.com/feature...oken=&fid=6873

Here's some for whites too
http://www.eop.mu.edu/david/scholarships/ethnic.html

In fact you can get Scholarships based solely on your choice of major. Also Irish apparently counts as a minority.
http://www.free-4u.com/minority.htm
Also Irish apparently counts as a minority.
http://www.rochesteririshfestival.or...olarships.html
You can get a scholarship for anything if you are willing to look for it.

[AkiraMakie]

A personal example? C'mon, I'm hardly 20 years old, I've spent most of the past two years I've been out of High School serving in the Army. When I start looking through jobs, etc. I'm sure I'll have more examples. But how about grants, scholarships, and the eligibility for loans that are restricted to those of races other than white? You ever see a white guy get an NAACP scholarship? We had two black people in our graduating class, and neither of them were in the top HALF, and both got at least one scholarship each. Not for sports, not for academics, not for community service, not for church...but because they were black. Now, how do you think the white guy that was third in the class felt when he saw that he was just barely not good enough to get most of the grants and scholarships, but if he was black, he wouldn't have to work for them? Hell, how would you feel if you made good grades, aced all your tests, and found out some guy in your school got a scholarship just because he was white?

Like Gnostic Yevon said, they give scholor ships for alot of things. Plain and simple. your point has no merit.

You would only be able to know if you knew the person, or knew the employer, on a personal level, or had worked with the person, and you knew (or was told) of his qualifications, or lack thereof. Or, actually, it's easy to judge sometimes.

These are all pretty big if's. So these also have no real merit. And how is it possible to just tell? is it by the way someone looks?

How do you know if people don't hire fairly? AA has been around all your life. I've already said this before, but if there were no AA, and employers were given the freedom to choose who they want to hire, and a black person was denied a job based solely upon skin color, he would sue the hell out of the business. So even if somebody is racist (which, of course, everybody is, right?), they wouldn't let that play a role in their hiring selection. Quotas are definitely not the way--you don't see any other way, but that doesn't mean there aren't other, better ways. There are checks and balances all over the place that ensure fair hiring. Hiring is fair. And it will be fair, because people will play the race card at every possible chance, and employers know this.

Obviously they tried the hire fairly thing already. it didnt work. So obviously AA was needed. And your acting like it was black people who established AA. This was the work of the government. So, obviously, they thought america needed it. Obviously they thought we still need it.

First off, what white student would want to go to a black college? He'd get his ass kicked, for one thing. And black people go to black colleges not for the education, but for the name and the environment. It looks good to other black people that they went to such-and-such black college.

So are you implying that black colleges arent as good as the white colleges? Basically you just said black colleges are only good on paper. See, this right here shows whats wrong with you as a person. You just gave a big "F- U up the ass to anyone who has ever graduated from a black college, gotten a Doctorate, or law degree or any other type agree from a black college. Its sad that you accually think that way though. This however shows your prejudice.

Also,Why do you believe a white person would get his ass kicked? Are you implying that all black people are racist to white people? Are you saying that black people are just naturally violent? Are you saying that there are no white people in Black colleges?

Second... Are you sure it would apply to white people as well? You have a source for that? Even so, when would it be appropriate? If a white guy went somewhere to apply for a job, and there was not one black person working there who was less qualified than he was, and he was turned down...would the white guy say "damn, I just ain't good enough", or would he say "you MUST hire me because I'm WHITE!"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

Take from that what you will.

That's because Japan is mainly, hmmm let's see, Japanese. America is a mix of many different colors, cultures, and languages. You can't look at somebody in America and say "That guy isn't from here!" Unless you're in Wisconsin and the guy's speaking Mandarin or something, then you don't know. You aren't any other nationality, but you are the descendant of another nationality, and it's easy to see that your ancestors didn't come over as settlers from England.

Damn right we didnt come over as settlers. at least we agree on that.

Affirmative Action is far from a "necessary evil". Quota-based hiring systems are wrong, period. Not necessary, not needed, not helping, just wrong. As a black person, you should be offended that jobs are being given to you.

No, however wrong it may be, i still believe it to be a nessasary evil.
As a white person, you should feel ashamed that your ancestors made it this way in the first place.

[Sasquatch]

I see throughout this entire post that you're being arrogant, and not listening to a word I've said. But I'll still reply, lest somebody else is polluted by your lack of logic and "I'm black, gimme" attitude.

Yes, they do give scholarships for a lot of things. Mainly of being of descent of a certain country. How many scholarship qualifications are narrowed down to "must be of European descent"? How many scholarship qualifications list "must not be of African descent"? The point has merit, you just don't see it.

Pretty big 'ifs'? IF you know the guy, or IF you know the employer, or IF you've worked with the guy, or IF you know somebody else at the new job, or IF you found out in a multitude of other ways what the guy's qualifications were? Doesn't sound like extremely thin chances to me. And often, yes, you can spend five minutes with a guy and figure out how he works--and if you're discussing the job you're both competing for, it'd be easy to determine how qualified he is with just a few minutes. Again, valid point, you're just denying it.

Obviously you don't know if they tried actual fair hiring or not, because obviously you weren't around back then. Obviously you don't know if it works now or not either, because obviously they aren't trying it. And obviously "the government did it, it must be okay" doesn't work, or I could obviously argue for slavery, saying "well the government didn't make it illegal, so it was just fine...on top of that, the black people IN Africa that they bought the slaves from didn't have a problem with it either." And obviously black people pushed for programs like AA, and would obviously raise Hell if they were abolished. You take a program away that gives things to people, they're gonna get mad.

And would you please stop twisting around everything I say to try to make me look racist? You already think I'm racist enough just because I'm a white American, I don't need any more help. I never said that degrees from black colleges didn't mean anything. I was saying that black colleges don't give any better education than any other college (How many "white colleges" are there?), I was saying that people go there for the name and environment. I'm sure black colleges provide just as good of an education as any other colleges do.

As for the next comment, on whether or not black people are racist, or violent, or that there are no white people in black colleges... Here's your answer. Many black people are racist, there are very few white people in black colleges, and though many young black people are violent, I'm sure only the more intelectual, and thus civilized and non-violent, would go to those specific colleges.

Thank you for the link. I briefly skimmed through it and didn't find anything about white people being given things they don't deserve, like other races are. Would you mind pointing that section out to me? Should be easy to recall, I'm sure you've read it, correct?

Yes, as a white person, if I had ever owned slaves, I would be extremely ashamed of myself. If I had ever done anything against somebody simply because they were a different race, I would be ashamed. But I can't be held responsible for what people did more than two centuries ago, and I can't change any of that. You, however, CAN change things--or at least try--instead of sitting back and reaping the benefits of a culture that panders to people that aren't white. I know if somebody tried to give me a job because I was in a certain family, or because I was from a certain state, or because I was a certain color, and I didn't deserve it, I wouldn't accept it. It's too bad most people aren't above having things given to them.

[lordblazer]

I understand how AA works. I didnt ask him that. i asked for hime to give a personal example of being turned down something because of his race. Secondly, if you were turned down because of your race, you wouldnt know it cause the employer wouldnt tell you that. So how would you know weather or not the black person was more or less qualified than yourself. You could only assume, and assumptions dont mean a damn thing.

And yes, i think AA is a nesassary evil. If people hired fairly, we wouldnt need it. ShunNakamura keeps saying that Quotas are not the way, but i dont see any other way. other than AA , there is no other way to make sure people hired fairly. If there was, i would be all for it, but there isnt. And on top of that, through out all of this, no one has even mentioned(cept for myself) thatAA works in reverse as well.

If a white college student wanted to go to a prodominately black college he's almost certain to get in over other higher qualified black students. Same goes for prodominately black work places. But not one even mentions that. That make is seem like its black peoples fault that we even have AA, but it was so the playing field would be fair. I personally think that if AA was suddenly ended, it would go back to being the way it was before. But Sas doesnt even think that racism is as bad as we say. On top of that, he used japan's racism as an example. But th thing about that is, the japanese dont like others based on Nationality. If you were japanese, you would be accepted. But in america, the racism is differnt. Im not another nationality, im American. But in america, they dont judge by Nationality. They judge you by skin color. Which is a differnt type of racism all together. Im not accepted in my own native country. Which i believe is a more dangerous type of racism.

Ah ok I get you.

Japan isn't "racist" in the sense that we think of racism here in the United States. See, the older generations of Japanese people, who were alive under the rule of the Empire, had an insane emperor who believed in "racial purity" (the Japanese infact had this ideology before the Germans did), but he didn't hate other people or want to kill them like the Nazis did, he just preached this BS that the Japanese were the superior race, seconded by the rest of Asians, and then everyone else was below them. Some people ate it up, some didn't. Most people that were born after 1970 are obsessed with people who aren't Japanese, and marketers will get black, white, and hispanic americans to be in YTV commercials and stuff in Japan, and that helps sell stuff...yeah. It's kind of like here we have older people who are all against interracial relationships...yeah, same principle.

But anyway...I better not get any further off topic (me and my Japan obsession), yeah, I think you stated my exact feelings with "a necessary evil". Sucks that it has to be that way.

except in america the older people are in there late 20s to early 40s that are against it also.Ten you have the kids that end up getting raised to hate other races.Then you really do have white people who aren't races but literally has a phobia towards black males.

[lordblazer]

I see throughout this entire post that you're being arrogant, and not listening to a word I've said. But I'll still reply, lest somebody else is polluted by your lack of logic and "I'm black, gimme" attitude.

Yes, they do give scholarships for a lot of things. Mainly of being of descent of a certain country. How many scholarship qualifications are narrowed down to "must be of European descent"? How many scholarship qualifications list "must not be of African descent"? The point has merit, you just don't see it.

Pretty big 'ifs'? IF you know the guy, or IF you know the employer, or IF you've worked with the guy, or IF you know somebody else at the new job, or IF you found out in a multitude of other ways what the guy's qualifications were? Doesn't sound like extremely thin chances to me. And often, yes, you can spend five minutes with a guy and figure out how he works--and if you're discussing the job you're both competing for, it'd be easy to determine how qualified he is with just a few minutes. Again, valid point, you're just denying it.

Obviously you don't know if they tried actual fair hiring or not, because obviously you weren't around back then. Obviously you don't know if it works now or not either, because obviously they aren't trying it. And obviously "the government did it, it must be okay" doesn't work, or I could obviously argue for slavery, saying "well the government didn't make it illegal, so it was just fine...on top of that, the black people IN Africa that they bought the slaves from didn't have a problem with it either." And obviously black people pushed for programs like AA, and would obviously raise Hell if they were abolished. You take a program away that gives things to people, they're gonna get mad.

And would you please stop twisting around everything I say to try to make me look racist? You already think I'm racist enough just because I'm a white American, I don't need any more help. I never said that degrees from black colleges didn't mean anything. I was saying that black colleges don't give any better education than any other college (How many "white colleges" are there?), I was saying that people go there for the name and environment. I'm sure black colleges provide just as good of an education as any other colleges do.

As for the next comment, on whether or not black people are racist, or violent, or that there are no white people in black colleges... Here's your answer. Many black people are racist, there are very few white people in black colleges, and though many young black people are violent, I'm sure only the more intelectual, and thus civilized and non-violent, would go to those specific colleges.

Thank you for the link. I briefly skimmed through it and didn't find anything about white people being given things they don't deserve, like other races are. Would you mind pointing that section out to me? Should be easy to recall, I'm sure you've read it, correct?

Yes, as a white person, if I had ever owned slaves, I would be extremely ashamed of myself. If I had ever done anything against somebody simply because they were a different race, I would be ashamed. But I can't be held responsible for what people did more than two centuries ago, and I can't change any of that. You, however, CAN change things--or at least try--instead of sitting back and reaping the benefits of a culture that panders to people that aren't white. I know if somebody tried to give me a job because I was in a certain family, or because I was from a certain state, or because I was a certain color, and I didn't deserve it, I wouldn't accept it. It's too bad most people aren't above having things given to them.

Why there aren't any scholarships jsut for those of european descent.

1.People of European descent holds teh most wealth in america
2.Are a majority
3.Has been able to hold the most wealth for really over 500 years since a white person stepped on this continent.
4.Kept people of other ethnic gorups on the bottom

So really I'm sorry for what your Ancestors did to mines but hey thats life and its still not holding oyu under because there are scholarships for people who are left handed dude.Do you hear me bitchin about how im right handed and can't qualify for it!?


edit- and i hated that comment on black colleges.The thing about black colleges is really yeah they hold your hand and help you get through a lot of things.YOu can get info easier.No white person wouldn't get his butt kick for going to one mainly because black people don't just plain hate whites like that and they'll get kicked out and a waste of there 20 grand.Their are white colleges that really black people don't want to go to.Mainly because they will be singled out.Sure there are black people that goto colleges like it but most are really too focussed on their goals and ignore all the bumps.

[AkiraMakie]

I see throughout this entire post that you're being arrogant, and not listening to a word I've said. But I'll still reply, lest somebody else is polluted by your lack of logic and "I'm black, gimme" attitude.

Yes, they do give scholarships for a lot of things. Mainly of being of descent of a certain country. How many scholarship qualifications are narrowed down to "must be of European descent"? How many scholarship qualifications list "must not be of African descent"? The point has merit, you just don't see it.

Pretty big 'ifs'? IF you know the guy, or IF you know the employer, or IF you've worked with the guy, or IF you know somebody else at the new job, or IF you found out in a multitude of other ways what the guy's qualifications were? Doesn't sound like extremely thin chances to me. And often, yes, you can spend five minutes with a guy and figure out how he works--and if you're discussing the job you're both competing for, it'd be easy to determine how qualified he is with just a few minutes. Again, valid point, you're just denying it.

Obviously you don't know if they tried actual fair hiring or not, because obviously you weren't around back then. Obviously you don't know if it works now or not either, because obviously they aren't trying it. And obviously "the government did it, it must be okay" doesn't work, or I could obviously argue for slavery, saying "well the government didn't make it illegal, so it was just fine...on top of that, the black people IN Africa that they bought the slaves from didn't have a problem with it either." And obviously black people pushed for programs like AA, and would obviously raise Hell if they were abolished. You take a program away that gives things to people, they're gonna get mad.

And would you please stop twisting around everything I say to try to make me look racist? You already think I'm racist enough just because I'm a white American, I don't need any more help. I never said that degrees from black colleges didn't mean anything. I was saying that black colleges don't give any better education than any other college (How many "white colleges" are there?), I was saying that people go there for the name and environment. I'm sure black colleges provide just as good of an education as any other colleges do.

As for the next comment, on whether or not black people are racist, or violent, or that there are no white people in black colleges... Here's your answer. Many black people are racist, there are very few white people in black colleges, and though many young black people are violent, I'm sure only the more intelectual, and thus civilized and non-violent, would go to those specific colleges.

Thank you for the link. I briefly skimmed through it and didn't find anything about white people being given things they don't deserve, like other races are. Would you mind pointing that section out to me? Should be easy to recall, I'm sure you've read it, correct?

Yes, as a white person, if I had ever owned slaves, I would be extremely ashamed of myself. If I had ever done anything against somebody simply because they were a different race, I would be ashamed. But I can't be held responsible for what people did more than two centuries ago, and I can't change any of that. You, however, CAN change things--or at least try--instead of sitting back and reaping the benefits of a culture that panders to people that aren't white. I know if somebody tried to give me a job because I was in a certain family, or because I was from a certain state, or because I was a certain color, and I didn't deserve it, I wouldn't accept it. It's too bad most people aren't above having things given to them.

i dont have the time right now to answer to all of these so i will just pick out one.

[q=Sasquatch]
And would you please stop twisting around everything I say to try to make me look racist? You already think I'm racist enough just because I'm a white American, I don't need any more help. I never said that degrees from black colleges didn't mean anything. I was saying that black colleges don't give any better education than any other college (How many "white colleges" are there?), I was saying that people go there for the name and environment. I'm sure black colleges provide just as good of an education as any other colleges do.
[/q]

I wasnt twisting around your words to make you look racist, i responded to the exact way you posted. Let me post that passage again....


[q=Sasquatch]

First off, what white student would want to go to a black college? He'd get his ass kicked, for one thing. And black people go to black colleges not for the education, but for the name and the environment. It looks good to other black people that they went to such-and-such black college.[/q]

Now. this was, and still is, a very ignorant comment to make. it didnt sound anything like the BS you tried to cover it up with. And once again, I NEVER SAID ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST!

Also a quick point about Those scholorships, You still dont have a point. Why is it so bad that you can get a scholorship because of your skin color. Your crying because of that, but like said before, they have special interest scholorships for everthing. Could i get mad because i didnt get awarded a scholorship made for people who are in wheelchairs? No, because im not in a friggin wheelchair.


anywayz, i have to go to work, so i will make another post later after i get off.

[Sasquatch]

Ah, not all white people, just the white culture. Gotcha.

First of all, you were trying to manipulate my words to make me look racist. Let's take a look, shall we?

"So are you implying that black colleges arent as good as the white colleges? Basically you just said black colleges are only good on paper. See, this right here shows whats wrong with you as a person. You just gave a big "F- U up the ass to anyone who has ever graduated from a black college, gotten a Doctorate, or law degree or any other type agree from a black college. Its sad that you accually think that way though. This however shows your prejudice.
Also,Why do you believe a white person would get his ass kicked? Are you implying that all black people are racist to white people? Are you saying that black people are just naturally violent? Are you saying that there are no white people in Black colleges?"

If you took my words to have some sort of racist connotation, then you should start reading things a little closer before you form judgements about 'em. I said that people don't go to all-black colleges because they give a better education, they go for the name and the environment. It would be just like a doctor wanting to go to a primarily medical college, or an engineer wanting to go to a big engineering college. Is the education any better, probably not, but the name looks good. The education is no doubt no worse than any other college. I wasn't trying to "cover it up", because it didn't need to be "covered up". I was trying to explain myself--even though I shouldn't have to--because you, obviously, didn't understand.

[AkiraMakie]

Ah, not all white people, just the white culture. Gotcha.

no, not the white culture, the american culture. It is still racist. Its not the same as it used to be. But its still there. Just because its not blatently put out for all to see doesnt mean it doesnt exist. But i guess some things need to be spelled out in BIG PRINT for you to notice it. if not, it must not exist to you.

If you took my words to have some sort of racist connotation, then you should start reading things a little closer before you form judgements about 'em. I said that people don't go to all-black colleges because they give a better education, they go for the name and the environment. It would be just like a doctor wanting to go to a primarily medical college, or an engineer wanting to go to a big engineering college. Is the education any better, probably not, but the name looks good. The education is no doubt no worse than any other college. I wasn't trying to "cover it up", because it didn't need to be "covered up". I was trying to explain myself--even though I shouldn't have to--because you, obviously, didn't understand.

Ok, how was i supposed to get all of that BS you just wrote from...

[q=Sasquatch]
First off, what white student would want to go to a black college? He'd get his ass kicked, for one thing. And black people go to black colleges not for the education, but for the name and the environment. It looks good to other black people that they went to such-and-such black college.[/q]


There is no way to even begin to get the same message outta those two quotes. AND, taken in context with the rest of your post, that was not the message that came across. And on top of that, who even brought up weather or not a black college offers a better education than any other college? That had nothing to do with anything we were even talking about to begin with. You threw that out there to cover up the fact that you indeed made an ignorant comment.


See, but i see the way you post. You dont even begin to reply to the things you cant argue.

You also claim i dont listen to what your saying, but i hear you. you believe that minorites get too much help from the government. you believe we are all violent(more so than white people but there is really no way to prove that). You believe we are all racist ( more so than white people). And we need to shut the hell up about our problems cause they are not that bad.

i hear you loud and clear.

You try to make me out to be the racist, but what i dont understand is, why would i come and post on a board that is probablly 99% white people if i was so racist. All i ever said was that america is still a racist place. I also said, you will never know the racism black people and other minorities face because you will always be apart of the majority in this country. I never asked for anything to be handed to black people. All i ask is that things be fair in this country. And i said, AA may not be the right way, but its the only way that make things fair in this country right now. And its not jsut for black people. its for all people. AA isnt about the quotas for minorites. its about making sure that there is an equal number of all groups in workplaces,schools, etc.

But yet, you point the racist finger at me because i view the country we live in, in a different light than you do. I feel sad for people that dont really know how it is for minorities and they see you debating it with me and they accually thing your right about some of these things.

In all of your post you've always gone the extra mile to make the struggles of the minorities in this country look mild when you really have no idea( You even tried to make slavery seem like its black peoples fault because the africans sold us to the whites). You've also, on many occasions cast racist stereotypes on black people to try and prove your point. You do this often, and not just in this topic, but in a whole bunch of other topics as well.

But yet, you accuse me of racism when i have never made one ill statement about any race since ive posted. But thats how you operate. I through "Debating" with you on this. Its stupid. I refuse to even continue a conversation with someone who is so closed minded.


I hope one day something opens your eyes to some of these things that im talking about.

[Sasquatch]

Ah, apologize again. Not just white culture, but American culture, is racist against black people. You go ahead and keep thinking that.

If you read that section of my post enough to actually understand it, you would have gathered that meaning. Instead, you saw it and immediately thought "oh, he's insulting black colleges, and people who graduated from black colleges, and all black people, I've got to get him for this, that bastard!" If you had understood it, you wouldn't have seen the "need" to badger me and call me a racist (yet again). You got a different meaning than was intended, and the faulty interpretation lies upon you.

I reply to everything that needs to be argued. What haven't I replied to because I "can't" argue it? I'd like to see it.

And if you read and understood what I post, you wouldn't be telling me what I think, and you definitely wouldn't be telling me that I think all black people are violent and racist. Where did I say all black people are violent or racist?

You say I'll "never know the racism black people face" because I'm not black. That would be about on the same level as me telling you, "Because of Affirmative Action, you will never know what it's like to work like a white person because you'll always be given jobs." I have been with black people, I have worked with black people and been to school with black people and fought with black people and lived with black people. I've seen black people play the race card at every opportunity, and I've seen other black people who despise other members of their race for expecting everything to be given to them. I'm not ignorant to what black people go through.

You say you "never asked for anything to be handed to black people". You say you just want things fair in America. Affirmative Action does not make things fair in this country, because it ensures that things are handed to black people. If things were fair in this country, then people would be able to earn jobs, scholarships, etc. based solely on their qualifications and not on their skin color. And that's the way it would be, if Affirmative Action didn't require quotas. AA does NOT work for "all people", it often awards unqualified minorities by depriving qualified white people. There should definitely not be an "equal number of all groups" anywhere, because our population does not reflect an "equal number of all groups". Based upon your "logic", with enough logic added to make it logical, only 12% of professional basketball players would be black.

When did I call you racist? Let's see, you think black people should be given opportunities, you think black people are at a disadvantage in American culture and it's white people's fault, you think it's perfectly fine to discriminate based upon skin color as long as it's against white people. Those are very racist attitudes. But I don't remember calling you specifically a racist.

And when in the hell did I say slavery was black people's fault? I pointed out that black Africans sold each other to white people, and that the trade and sale of slaves is still going on today in Africa, but I never mentioned anything along the lines of the fault lying on black people. Is that something you're intentionally manipulating, or do you really just not understand it?

If you decide to cease the debate, that's upon you. I believe I've already said that the point isn't to change the mind of your opponent, but to help change or make up the mind of a bystander. I know I won't change your mind, and you know you won't change my mind.

[ShunNakamura]

First, from Sasqautch's black college quote.. I did get what he was trying to get across.. although at the time I thought it not to be the best way to word his message, but, meh.. not everyone is perfect.

How can we get rid of quotas?

Hmm.. we could create a board of people to review ALL jobs that are taken, or the board could just view cases where racism was suspected. This would server two things.
1) it would even the playing field, people would get the job for thier qualifications. See, we can get rid of quotas, it just takes some work.

2) it would create jobs, and this may help raise America's standard of living, as it is now it is fairly difficult to break out of poverty. Education is the key to social mobility, and Education is better for those who have more money.

3) If it hired poorer people the job could require mandatory education in the basic subjects. This would raise thier education and thus help them get out of poverty.

So really... I don't see many problems with this, except ti would have to be watched and would require a fair amount of work... oh wait I forgot... Americans Are lazy.

[Sasquatch]

That would work, but strong opposition would come from some of the black community simply because it would mean the end of racial hand-outs.

One of the things we should do is completely eliminate any "race/ethnic heritage" boxes or blanks on any and all applications. If it doesn't matter what color you are, why should you have to mark it down?

[AkiraMakie]

When did I call you racist? Let's see, you think black people should be given opportunities, you think black people are at a disadvantage in American culture and it's white people's fault, you think it's perfectly fine to discriminate based upon skin color as long as it's against white people. Those are very racist attitudes. But I don't remember calling you specifically a racist.

Once again, i did say black people are at a disadvantage in america, but its not white peoples fault. Its americas fault. The slavery has left us to have to play catch up and we are just not there. America is still very racist place. When did i say it was ok to descriminate based on Skin color? I said in the very begining no one deserves to get descriminated on. But besides thinking black people are at a disadvantage in america, how does that make me have a racist attitude? I never made one bad remark towards white people. I never looked down upon white people, etc.


[q=Sasquatch]
You say I'll "never know the racism black people face" because I'm not black. That would be about on the same level as me telling you, "Because of Affirmative Action, you will never know what it's like to work like a white person because you'll always be given jobs." I have been with black people, I have worked with black people and been to school with black people and fought with black people and lived with black people. I've seen black people play the race card at every opportunity, and I've seen other black people who despise other members of their race for expecting everything to be given to them. I'm not ignorant to what black people go through.
[/q]

That analogy is BS. And since when has AA been about just handing out jobs to black people. Hell, no one just handed me a job. If thats the case, when am i gonna get handed my job. And Just because you know a few black people doesnt make you an expert on the black people. There are some black people that expect things to be given to them, but hell, there are some white people that expect things to be given to them, so what difference does it make. Also , you must be ignorant to what black people go through because you would obviously be respectful enough to at least acknowledge the racism and discrimanation we still face, but you act as if it doesnt exist. I mean, why would millions of black people all across the country exaggerate one point? I dont get it. If racism is not as bad as i say, why do even hard working black people (not the ones you claim want something to be handed to them) even say the racism is still there? Are we all lying?

I wish you could be black for a month. Black and poor and from the ghetto. I wish you could just live like that for a month and see what im talking about. That would be the only way for you to really understand what im trying to say. Like i said, the view from the other side of the fence must be different for white people than it is for black people. We view things differently. And once again, you will never know what its like to be black, cause you aren't black. Its like i can never understand the problems of rich kids cause im not rich. In instances like this, people can only think as far as thier circumstances. Its like i was watching this show on HBO called "Born Rich". It was a documentary about rich white kids and the problems they face. Now, in my mind, im thinking "What the hell are they crying about, The are already rich as hell. What worries should they have?" But im pretty sure to them, their problems were probably very valid, even though, i could never understand them. Now does it mean, their problems are non existant, and over exaggerated? No. But can i relate and understand it fully? No. Even if i had a rich friend, i couldnt understand it. I mean, i cant see why you would hide how rich you are to not seem to rich to your other rich friends? Stuff like that seems stupid to me. The point is, its not easy to see some things black people go through unless you walk the path they have walked.