What would you do?

[Raistlin]

Another cnn.com update:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/21/schiavo/index.html

District Court Judge James Whittemore of the Middle District of Florida began the hearing at 3:08 p.m. and apportioned 30 minutes to each side to present its arguments.

Here we go...

Attorneys for Michael Schiavo told CNN Monday they would argue the new legislation represents the intrusion of Congress and the president into both a private family matter and a state court system.

Not to mention blatant abuse of power.

"We feel confident that the federal courts are not going to find this act constitutional," attorney Deborah Bushnell told CNN.

I sure as hell hope not.

Bushnell argued that the case has already been decided.

"This case has had more due process than any situation in memory," she said.

Indeed it has.

But Gibbs countered, "Fundamentally, we don't believe Terri was ever given a fair trial."

ARE YOU NUTS? Ok, timeline:
- originally, Michael took it to court. Court rules that Terri would wish to die.
-Parents petition court of appeals. Court of appeals affirms the lower court's ruling.
-Parents petition to Florida Supreme Court. Florida Supreme Court dismisses the petition.
-Lower court orders feeding tube removed.
-Parents file for new trial, which is quickly dismissed.
-Parents file suit against Michael - request that the feeding tube is reinserted(which it is).
-Court of appeals reverses the temporary injunction by the second judge(which reinserted the feeding tube) and dismissed the case against Michael.
-Parents motion for new case based on new evidence about Terri - courts hear arguments and dismiss motion.
-Parents appeal dismissal. Dismissal affirmed by court of appeals.
-Parents appeal to Florida Supreme Court, who dismisses.
-New trial convenes in lower court, hearing testimony. New independent court-appointed doctor is sent. Court sides with Michael(again), stating that Terri is, in fact, in a peristent vegetative state.
-Parents appeal ruling. Court of appeals affirms lower court's ruling(again!)
-Parents appeal to Florida Supreme Court, which, I know you're going to have trouble believing it, but they dismiss.
-Parents file new suit "challenging Florida's laws on life-prolonging procedures as unconstitutional." Judge dismisses.
-Parents file in federal court, where case is dismissed.
-Terri's feeding tube is removed for the second time.
-Jeb Bush signs "Terri's Law," which reinserted feeding tube.
-Michael files suit against Governer. "Terri's Law" eventually ruled unconstitutional by both lower court and Florida Supreme Court.
-Jeb Bush petitions US Supreme Court. US Supreme Court dismisses.
-Judge rules that Florida Department of Children and Families is free to investigate, but will not grant a stay of the feeding tube removal.
-Parents appeal on grounds of violation of due process. Court of appeals affirms lower court's ruling(I might as well copy/paste most of this).
-Parents file in federal court again. Federal court again dismisses.
-and now all the latest stuff with the Congress investigation and the feeding tube removal and the new law passed and new suits.

Source: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

"I think it's an invasion to the American people when you make a private decision in a family matter. They're thumbing their nose up to the American people and the Constitution," [Michael] said on CNN. "This is a sad day for Terri, and it's a sad day for every American in this country, and people should be outraged."

Amen!

Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the president's brother, issued a statement shortly after the House vote: "I thank the Congress for its swift action allowing Terri's parents to seek a federal review of this case. Certainly, an incapacitated person deserves at least the same protection afforded criminals sentenced to death."

Twenty million different court cases isn't enough protection?

"This is about Terri Schiavo, not the government, not President Bush and Gov. Bush," [Michael] said. "They should be ashamed of themselves."

*agrees*

The bitter legal debate has resulted in more than a dozen state court decisions.

All of them ruling in favor of Terri's right to die.

The battle appeared to reach a climax Friday when the Florida trial judge ordered Schiavo's tube removed, rejecting a House panel's efforts to subpoena the woman, her husband and others for a hearing. The U.S. Supreme Court later rejected the House's appeal to intervene in the case.

So the Supreme Court told the House to keep its nose out of it...but Congress thinks it can pass whatever laws it wants to in this case? *sighs*

Politicians. *shakes head sadly*

[Yuffie514]

i wouldn't remove the feeding tube .

[Raistlin]

i wouldn't remove the feeding tube .

Even if Terri explicitly stated that she would want the feeding tube removed? Don't you think that's rather selfish?

[Raistlin]

Again, only double-posting so people see the update:

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/21/schiavo/index.html

Headline:

TAMPA, Florida (CNN) -- A federal judge Monday heard arguments on whether a feeding tube should be reinserted for Terri Schiavo, a brain-damaged woman at the center of a tug of war that triggered extraordinary congressional action over the weekend.

Judge James Whittemore of the Middle District of Florida did not indicate when he might rule on the matter.

"I will render a decision, but I will not tell you when," Whittemore said at the conclusion of the hearing.

xD

David Gibbs -- an attorney for Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler -- filed documents overnight seeking a temporary restraining order and Schiavo's move from a hospice to a hospital for the tube's reinsertion.

This is what the judge is going to render a decision on.

Gibbs repeatedly called for urgent action, saying Schiavo is dehydrating and starving "as we speak."

He said her right to due process has consistently been denied by lower courts -- a statement that drew intense questioning from the judge.

Pressed by Whittemore to cite any case law to support his argument, Gibbs admitted he could not think of any.

Excuse me for one moment.

*walks out of room*

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

*walks back in room*

George Felos, an attorney for her husband, pointed out that Michael Schiavo is her legal guardian and argued that her parents don't have legal standing to make their case.

Felos also said Terri Schiavo told her best friend, brother-in-law and uncle that she would never want to be kept alive in this type of scenario.

Outside court, Felos told reporters that Terri Schiavo long ago made clear her wishes: "She said, 'I don't want to be kept alive artificially -- 'no tubes for me. I want to go when my time comes. Take the tubes and everything out.' "

Pretty persuasive. This also let's use know that it wasn't only Michael who testified that Terri would want to die - it was other family and friends as well.

Gibbs said he believes the judge will make a quick decision.

"We tried to stress the urgency of moving quickly," he said. "I'm sure the court is well aware that Terri does not have many days without food or water before she will die."

Basically, Gibbs' chief argument was that Terri's going to die soon. Nothing about what she would want or evidence(because they don't have any). Pretty weak if you ask me.


The parents' case is sounding more and more pathetic as the story moves on.

[Wiegrahf42]

If she was a vegetable that long then I would say that she died 15 years ago. Sort of like someone with Alzheimers (my great grandpa had it). It doesn't just destroy the body, it destroys the soul, It destroys who you are.

[Raistlin]

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/22/schiavo/index.html

Headline:

TAMPA, Florida (CNN) -- A federal judge on Tuesday refused to order the reinsertion of a feeding tube for Terri Schiavo, a brain-damaged woman who is the center of a national legal battle over her life.

w00t

Attorneys for Schiavo's parents will file an appeal at the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta, Georgia.

Haha, go figure. I wonder if the federal court of appeals will treat the parents any better. I somehow doubt it.

Michael Schiavo is vowing to carry through with what he calls his wife's wish not to live in such a condition, saying, "I will stick by Terri."

"When Terri's wishes are carried out, it will be her wish. She'll be at peace, she'll be with the Lord," Michael Schiavo said on Monday. "This is what Terri wants. She does not want to be in this condition. She does not want to exist in this condition, and I'm going to carry out what she wanted."

Just like to point out: her best friend, and other relatives also testified that she said she would want to die.

Doctors have said Terri Schiavo could live for one to two weeks without her feeding tube.

The parents could file at least a half-dozen appeals in that time!

Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, are facing an uphill battle. Repeated court rulings have held that Michael Schiavo is his wife's legal guardian and therefore has the right to make decisions regarding her care.

Repeated? How about "continuous since the year 2000?"

But at a hearing Monday, Judge Whittemore grilled the Schindlers' attorney about the constitutionality of their case.

Michael Schiavo was not at Monday's federal hearing, instead opting to remain at Terri Schiavo's bedside. He said it is going to be "hard" when she finally dies.

"I've cried many tears so far, trust me," he said. "I made a promise to Terri. I'm going to stick by her side, and I'm going to do this for her. Terri is not a piece of property that you pass back and forth. She didn't say, 'Well, when I become sick, give me back to my parents.' I will stick by Terri."

Nothing to say to that.

Well, it looks like the federal judges are ruling the same way. Again, go figure, as it appears the parents don't have a case beyond, "we want Terri to live."

[nik0tine]

I have finally made up my mind. I side with her husband. The question in this case is not "What is the right thing?" or "What would Terri want?" the question is, simpley, "Who has legal control over Terri?" The answer is Terri's husband. Therefore he calls the shots. Period. If this means Terri dies then so be it. Is the husband making a just decision? Who knows. All I know is that it is absurd to think that our government can pull this crap off.

[The Captain]

The Daily Show had a wonderful interpretation of this whole situation.

To paraphrase:

"The government has decided that instead of trying in vain to do a lot of things for everyone, they will instead do one thing for one person and go on a case by case basis until every problem in the country is solved. Makes perfect sense."

Ah, biting wit, thy name is The Daily Show.

Take care all.

[Raistlin]

I have finally made up my mind. I side with her husband. The question in this case is not "What is the right thing?" or "What would Terri want?" the question is, simpley, "Who has legal control over Terri?" The answer is Terri's husband. Therefore he calls the shots. Period. If this means Terri dies then so be it. Is the husband making a just decision? Who knows. All I know is that it is absurd to think that our government can pull this crap off.

No, the main question still is "what would Terri want?" However, in order to try to achieve that, there is a sort of medical hierarchy as to who gets the call. I know of a doctor who works at a hospital and was on a medical ethics board. He also came in to my Philosophy class when we were talking about medical ethics. He said the person on top of that hierarchy is the husband. The parents are third. I forget who's second(maybe children over the age of 18), but I do remember the parents were third.
Also, not just the husband testified that she said she would want to die: the brother-in-law, uncle, and best friend did as well.

"The government has decided that instead of trying in vain to do a lot of things for everyone, they will instead do one thing for one person and go on a case by case basis until every problem in the country is solved. Makes perfect sense."

Haha

[omnitarian]

I just read this in Newseek:

Then, early Thursday morning, an aide to House Speaker Dennis Hastert came up with a novel idea to buy some time until a compromise could be struck: subpoena [Terri] Schiavo to appear before Congress, thereby granting her federal protection as a witness.

The subpeonas were thrown out, apparently. I can understand taking unconventional actions to ensure democracy is served, but this just weirds me out.

[Raistlin]

It wasn't "unconventional action to ensure democracy is served"; more like "blatant abuse of power."

[udsuna]

If I was her, and knew what I know, and was given 10 seconds of functional actions... I'd take a running leap out of the hospital window.

[omnitarian]

It wasn't "unconventional action to ensure democracy is served"; more like "blatant abuse of power."

Indeed.

[Rase]

From what I have been able to gather from the various news stations, as well as the sources Raistlin posted, I would have to say that I have to agree that, as she is now, she cannot feel pain. Also, as she has lost the part of her brain that controls basically everything except basic movement (unless I'm mistaken, in which case correct me), I think that she has already died in the sense of everything except body. And, seeing as how she has been in this state for 15 years, it seems as though this has dragged on. While I cannot say this with 100% certainty, it appears that she would have wanted this to happen. Again, this is just going by the courts, who know more than I do. Therefore, I would have to say that I think it is okay that they have removed the tube, as she was basically only living in body, not in what makes people human. Again, if I have in anyway misunderstood or misinterpreted the facts, please correct me.

If this were to happen to me, I would have to say that I would have them store my body and use it's parts to help anyone who needed them, whatever the part may be. As for a loved one, well, it would all depend on whta they had requested happen.

[Excelsior]

raistlin, i just have to say you owned this argument although, even though i am definately siding with raist on this issue, i just have to say this whole thing is really saddening.