What would you do?

[Raistlin]

Well, it looks like the federal court is treating the Schindlers about the same.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/23/schiavo/index.html

Headline:

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- A three-judge panel of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals early Wednesday declined to order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.

Well, there goes federal court. If they try to appeal to the Supreme Court, it'll more than likely just get dismissed.

The vote was 2 to 1.

1? I wonder what his reasoning was.

After the appeals court ruling, a lawyer for the Schindlers said they would continue their fight, The Associated Press reported.

"The Schindlers will be filing an appropriate appeal to save their daughter's life," Rex Sparklin, an attorney with the law firm representing the parents, told the AP.

Appealing where? The Supreme Court has already dismissed the case once; it's doubtful they'll actually see it now.

In issuing their majority opinion, 11th Circuit Judges Ed Carnes and Frank Hull said:

"We agree that the plaintiffs have failed to demonstrate a substantial case on the merits of any of their claims. We also conclude that the district court's carefully thought out decision to deny temporary relief in these circumstances is not an abuse of discretion."

*agrees*

Judge Charles Wilson, who said he "strongly dissented" from the majority opinion, said refusing the parents' appeal "frustrates Congress' intent, which is to maintain the status quo by keeping Theresa Schiavo alive until the federal courts have a new and adequate opportunity to consider the constitutional issues raised by plaintiffs."

Oh give me a break. This guy isn't a judge, he's a smurfing politician.

Continuing, Wilson said, the whole point of a law passed early Monday by Congress was to "give the federal courts an opportunity to consider the merits of plaintiffs' constitutional claims with a fresh set of eyes."

Congress passed an unconstitutional law to force-feed the case down the federal courts' throat, because they didn't get the ruling they wanted in the local courts.

Terry[an anti-abortion activist] said he's in Tallahassee trying to convince state senators to vote for a bill that would reinsert Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.

You mean, one like Jeb Bush passed in 2003 which was ruled unconstitutional? Go for it.

If the federal courts decline to intervene in the Terri Schiavo case, Congress and Bush could pass and sign another law to try to keep the brain-damaged woman alive, said CNN legal analyst Kendall Coffey.

Oh great. So now Congress can be judge and jury. That not only is an abuse of power, it completely tramples over the constitution and the idea of seperate government powers.

The challenge congressional leaders would face, Coffey said, would be crafting legislation that would withstand U.S. Supreme Court scrutiny. Congress would need to be mindful of the constitutional provision of separation of powers, he said.

Heh, that's just what I said. Anyway, I believe it's impossible in this case. The Supreme Court might be Republican, but it's not stupid.

The law passed by Congress and signed by Bush early Monday gave a federal court the right to consider whether Florida courts had violated Schiavo's rights, Coffey said.

Which was bad enough. However, now the federal courts all said, "yeah right."

Well, there goes federal court. Any doubts about the validity of Michael's case I had are now gone, what with three more judges making the same ruling.

[edczxcvbnm]

I so want it to go to the Supreme Court only to have the whole law that was passed declared unconstitutional and rub that in congress and Bush's face.

[Raistlin]

Here we go again:

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/23/schiavo/index.html

Headline:

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- The parents of a severely brain-damaged woman have asked the full 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for an expedited rehearing of the case.

Oh come on, now. Judges have something called "good sense" when it comes to the law, something which these parents seem to not have.

Bob and Mary Schindler also are trying to get the Florida Legislature to take up a bill to restart food and hydration for 41-year-old Terri Schiavo, whose feeding tube was removed Friday.

Because their wishes are much more important than their daughter's.

The latest request, filed by Schindler attorney David Gibbs, asks that the court's 12 judges consider the appeal based on whether Schiavo's legal right to have her claims heard by a federal court would be truncated by her impending death.

Oh come on: it shouldn't even be in federal court! The parents did not have the right to appeal a state decision to federal court(standard judicial procedure), but the Congress passed an immediate, specific law just to pass this case along to federal court. She should already be dead, if Jeb Bush hadn't passed an unconstitutional law to keep her alive in '03. The federal court and federal court of appeals has ruled on the matter - the rulings were not affected by the fact that she's less than a week away from dying. The whole panel of the appeals judges could make a ruling by tomorrow, if they accepted the case.

The documents ask that the court issue a preliminary injunction prohibiting Schiavo's husband, Michael, and others from preventing the tube being reinserted.

He's not preventing the tube from being reinserted. The judges are - the ones that ruled that she will never wake up, wants to die, and that her due process has been more than covered.

"When I close my eyes at night, all I can see is Terri's face in front of me, dying. Starving to death," she said. "Please. Someone out there. Stop this cruelty. Stop the insanity. Please let my daughter live."

Cruelty? I think someone should stop the cruelty of a deluded mother trying to unjustly keep her daughter alive when there has been clear evidence that she would want to die.

President Bush called the situation "an extraordinary and sad case."

Bush is an idiot. Sorry, just had to get that one out.

"I believe that in a case such as this, the legislative branch, the executive branch, ought to err on the side of life, which we have," Bush said. "And now we'll watch the courts make their decisions."

ARGH! Florida state law mandated that exact same thing to the judges - err on the side of life. However, despite that legal mandate, multiple judges ruled numerous times that she'd want to die, and that there's clear and convincing evidence that she won't ever recover.

"We agree that the plaintiffs have failed to demonstrate a substantial case on the merits of any of their claims," Judges Ed Carnes and Frank Hull wrote in their majority opinion. "We also conclude that the district court's carefully thought-out decision to deny temporary relief in these circumstances is not an abuse of discretion.

Good, straight logic right there.

In a strongly worded dissent, Judge Charles Wilson said refusing the parents' appeal frustrates the intent of the U.S. Congress, "which is to maintain the status quo by keeping Theresa Schiavo alive until the federal courts have a new and adequate opportunity to consider the constitutional issues raised by plaintiffs."

I just have to reiterate that this Judge is a freakin' idiot. The first judges said they made an objective ruling based on the law, which is what judges have to do. This nutjob made a subjective ruling based on the situation and the Congress!

This is pathetic.

EDIT: woah, there's more.

Protesters who want Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted have been outside her Florida hospice for several days. Sheriff's deputes arrested about a dozen people Wednesday.

The protest was a carefully organized civil demonstration coordinated with police, and the arrests were without incident.

The Rev. Patrick Mahoney, who has been speaking on the Schindlers' behalf, challenged Florida Senate President Tom Lee.

"Let it not be said that Terri was starved with a Republican majority in the [state] House, the Senate and the Governor's Mansion," he said.

"Sen. Lee ... you need to act now. If Terri Schiavo dies, it is on your watch."

The bill that might be considered in the Florida Senate on Wednesday would prohibit the suspension of food and water from patients in a persistent vegetative state when the sole purpose of such a suspension was to end the life of the patient, or if there was any conflict regarding the decision, and if the patient left no living will to express his or her wishes in such a circumstance.

Holy crap, there's already law and legal precedent which says that a feeding tube is aggresive medical treatment, and therefore can be removed!

Also, am I the only person disturbed by the fact that he's practically threatening this Lee guy? "Hey, you're Republican, you have to completely abandon the law, constitution, and reason and try to save this woman's life which was gone 15 years ago!"

Mahoney also pleaded for Florida Gov. Jeb Bush to take action.

"You may be Terri's last hope. We would ask that [Bush] use some executive authority to intervene," Mahoney said.

What the hell? Bush doesn't have the right to do anything. This is the court's decision, and they have a hell of a lot more sense than the President, apparently, and all of these protesters.


This is getting more and more sad.

[The Captain]

I'm glad our government is finally getting around to health care issues, though I was hoping it would be a bit more, shall I say, universal?

Take care all.

[Raistlin]

Update after update after update...

Well, I didn't check CNN.com(as I typically don't 10 minutes after I last checked it), but I just heard on the news that the federal court of appeals denied a full panel review, so I quickly checked and...there it was! Another update.

First off, I'm listening to Fox News now(something which I never do after I first saw Bill O'Reilly), and I'm surprised. The host and one analyst talking are supporting the judges. The analyst said that, if the law does go before the Florida legislature, the Congressmen would be pressured to vote for it in order for them to be reelected(which sounds true).

The analyst(didn't catch his name) also quoted a US Congressman as saying "we ordered the federal court to review this case" and pointed out that the Congress didn't have the power to do that - they could only give the federal courts jurisdiction(something which they also really didn't have the right to do, but they did).

Anyway, on to cnn.com

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/23/schiavo/index.html

Headline:

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Wednesday denied a request by the parents of a severely brain-damaged woman for an expedited rehearing of the case.

Good for them.

Bob and Mary Schindler are trying to get the Florida Legislature to take up a bill to restart food and hydration for 41-year-old Terri Schiavo, whose feeding tube was removed Friday.

Oh, so basically "Terri's Law" from 2003. That's nice. Oh...wait, wasn't that ruled unconstitutional? Why, yes, it was.

The rest of the page wasn't updated, so the CNN people are probably working on it now.

[CloudSquallandZidane]

Oh plz let this women die, plz.

She has been sitting in that room staring off into space for a very long time. Let her move on to the next life.

I agree with those who say she died 15 years ago, her body just doesnt know it yet. They really should suffer her to breathe any longer, its inhumane.

Its funny Bush signed a law to let the hospital pull the plug, when he was the governor of Texas, but now he wants to be on "the side of life". Kinda strange dont u think? Unless he was manipulating this situation for his own political gain... Just something for u to ponder.

[The Captain]

"Its funny Bush signed a law to let the hospital pull the plug, when he was the governor of Texas, but now he wants to be on "the side of life". Kinda strange dont u think? Unless he was manipulating this situation for his own political gain... Just something for u to ponder."

A missing link in that I believe, was that the child who had the plug pulled couldn't afford the medical bill, whilst in this case, the bills have been paid. Just another layer to this murky topic.

Take care all.

[Raistlin]

One more ere I'm off to bed...

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/23/schiavo/index.html

Headline:

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- An attorney for Terri Schiavo's parents said Wednesday that he was preparing an appeal to the Supreme Court, hours after a federal court in Atlanta twice rejected appeals seeking reinsertion of the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube.

Here we go. It'll probably be dismissed again, though.

Meanwhile, Florida authorities filed a new request in state court to intervene, arguing that new information suggests Schiavo's condition might have been misdiagnosed.

Oh yes, I heard about this on TV. Some doctor who never even examined her said she was "probably in a semi-concious state." I wonder what rock they dragged up that "doctor" from.

The Florida Senate rejected a bill Wednesday that would restart food and hydration for Schiavo.

The Florida Senate has more sense than the US Senate, apparently.

The petition by the Florida Department of Children and Families said a neurologist who examined Schiavo's medical records found she was "most likely in a state of minimal consciousness," rather than the persistent vegetative state previous doctors have diagnosed.

Ah, the good doctor I mentioned earlier. Yes, you read right: he diagnosed the patient chiefly from medical records.

"This new information raises serious concerns and warrants immediate action," Florida Gov. Jeb Bush told reporters.

Give me a break. The only serious concern this raises is these idiot doctors who are willing to toy with peoples' lives.

The state agency asked Judge George Greer to order Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted, and Greer said he would rule by noon Thursday.

I wonder what that ruling will be...hmm...will it be the same ruling of 30-some-odd other judges based on evidence and constitutional and legal precedent, or will it be an entirely new ruling based on delusion and whim?

On Wednesday[that's today], the judge barred Florida authorities from removing the brain-damaged woman from the hospice.

Ooh, yes, something else I heard on the news. Jeb Bush wanted to place Terri under the protection of the state. The Judge basically told him to mind his own business.

"I believe that in a case such as this, the legislative branch, the executive branch, ought to err on the side of life, which we have," Bush said. "And now we'll watch the courts make their decisions."

If they had just done that, this would've been over by now.

Ah well. It looks like this may be the final time Terri Schiavo's feeding tube is removed. Hopefully, she can rest in peace.

[edczxcvbnm]

"Its funny Bush signed a law to let the hospital pull the plug, when he was the governor of Texas, but now he wants to be on "the side of life". Kinda strange dont u think? Unless he was manipulating this situation for his own political gain... Just something for u to ponder."

A missing link in that I believe, was that the child who had the plug pulled couldn't afford the medical bill, whilst in this case, the bills have been paid. Just another layer to this murky topic.

Take care all.

The thing that gets a lot of us mad over this one is that if they couldn't pay the bills then the state could have. They didn't go to extrodanry lengths to save people's lives like they are trying to do for Terry. Its complete hypocracy.

[The Captain]

Indeed, indeed. Making laws for each individual citizen is a bit of a stretch to say the least.


Take care all.

[Raistlin]

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/24/schiavo/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Supreme Court rejected Thursday an appeal by the parents of Terri Schiavo to have their severely brain-damaged daughter's feeding tube reinserted.

Yeah - everybody knew that was going to happen.

Twenty court rulings have sided with Michael Schiavo, who as husband is also guardian. The courts have ruled that evidence shows Terri Schiavo expressed her wishes, although she did not have a written living will.

TWENTY!

On the Florida front, Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer has said he will rule by noon Thursday on the latest effort by Florida officials to intervene in the case.

This is the same Florida judge who ordered the feeding tube removed on Friday. With no new evidence, I see no reason as to why he'd change his ruling. We'll know in a couple of hours.

Greer had ordered Schiavo's tube removed last Friday, after seven years of court battles between the Schindlers and Michael Schiavo. The issue now before Greer involves allegations that Terri Schiavo may have been abused by her husband.

What, this again? Courts already ruled that there's no evidence to believe that her injuries were sustained by anything other than CPR(which you can be easily injured by - I know a doctor who's broken ribs doing CPR).

Ah, well. Looks like today the final decision will be made.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Is the government paying for her medical bills? I imagine that if they were to be paying the bills themselves, they'd be more than happy to yank the plug. I swear this whole thing is making me sick.

[DarkLadyNyara]

If a person commits 1st degree murder and is sentenced to death, and the state proposed starvation and dehydration as the means of execution, the idea would be shot down as cruel and unusual punishment. However, if a woman suffers a tragic accident and is consigned to a wheelchair for the rest of her life, this same cruel and unusual punishment is fine. It's comforting to know that we wouldn't dare treat our most sinister of criminals the way we're perfectly happy treating our seriously ill.

Actually, acording to medical experts, compleat starvation isn't painful. The human body is built to deal with it. The people who suffer from starvation are those who still get some food, but not enough (like during famines). Plus the fact that, from what I've heard, she is beyond pain.

[Raistlin]

Is the government paying for her medical bills? I imagine that if they were to be paying the bills themselves, they'd be more than happy to yank the plug. I swear this whole thing is making me sick.

Umm...I don't think so. I'm not positive, but I believe she's being cared for by Michael(the husband).

Actually, acording to medical experts, compleat starvation isn't painful. The human body is built to deal with it. The people who suffer from starvation are those who still get some food, but not enough (like during famines). Plus the fact that, from what I've heard, she is beyond pain.

Exactly.

[The Captain]

Taken from the NY Times today:


Schiavo Lesson on Judiciary Trump Card:

"The United States Congress and the governor of Florida have devoted extraordinary and all but single-minded energy to keeping Terri Schiavo alive. But all they have achieved so far is a bitter lesson in judicial supremacy.

It is a lesson as old as Marbury v. Madison, the 1803 case in which Chief Justice John Marshall famously said that "it is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is," and as fresh as Bush v. Gore, the 2000 decision that decided a presidential election.

Its latest teachers were Judge George W. Greer, of the Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Court in Clearwater, Fla., and the federal appeals court in Atlanta.

Judge Greer blocked Gov. Jeb Bush from following through on a suggestion at a news conference that state officials might take Ms. Schiavo into protective custody. And, even as he agreed to consider overnight what state officials called new evidence that she might be conscious, Judge Greer staked out a primary role in the process.

A lawyer for the state told the judge that the three branches of the government are equal.

"That is indeed true," Judge Greer replied, "but the executive is certainly not superior."

And the United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, in Atlanta, in successive decisions yesterday of a three-judge panel and then the entire 12-member court, refused to order Ms. Schiavo's feeding tube to be reinserted notwithstanding a law enacted by Congress on Monday that many of its supporters thought required at least that.

If nothing else, this series of decisions vindicated the one conception of American judicial power.

"It has been the basic premise of the three-branch system set up by the Constitution," said Eric M. Freedman, a law professor at Hofstra, "that judgments in individual cases are to be made by judges and not legislative bodies or executive officials. That division, which originated from unhappy experience in England, has been a valuable protection of liberty in this country over many centuries."

The decisions also illustrate how protective the judiciary branch can be of its status in a divided government.

"Judges don't like to be fooled around with," said Mark Tushnet, a law professor at Georgetown. "If executive officials or legislators do something that judges think look as if they're being fooled around with, they will be extremely resistant."

And judges often protect their own.

The federal judges whom Congress authorized to rehear the Schiavo case seemed reluctant to upset what their state-court colleagues had decided.

In his decision refusing to reinsert the feeding tube on Tuesday, Judge James D. Whittemore, of the Federal District Court in Tampa, expressed solicitude for Judge Greer, saying that accusations that he had acted in a biased and unlawful fashion were "without merit."

At the same time, he explained to Congress and to Ms. Schiavo's parents that the new law did not require him to preserve Ms. Schiavo's life. Her parents had not demonstrated, he said, the only thing that mattered in court: a substantial likelihood that they would succeed on the merits of their case.

The divided three-judge panel that upheld Judge Whittemore's decision, in turn, went out of its way to praise his work as "carefully thought out" and took the relatively unusual step of appending it to the majority decision.

In almost the same breath, the two judges who joined the unsigned majority opinion, Ed Carnes and Frank M. Hull, said the law enacted on Monday could not undo years of litigation in the Florida state courts. And in what could be read as a dig at Congress, the judges suggested that better drafting might have yielded a different result.

"Congress considered and specifically rejected provisions that would have mandated, or permitted with favorable implications, the grant of the pretrial stay," the majority said.

An early version of the legislation passed on Monday said that the district judge hearing the Schiavo case "shall" issue a stay of the state court proceedings. A later one said it "may" issue such a stay. The law as enacted omitted the provision entirely.

Yesterday's panel decision quoted at length and with something like glee from an exchange between Senator Carl Levin, Democrat of Michigan, and the Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, Republican of Tennessee.

Senator Levin asked Senator Frist about the significance of the omitted stay provision.

"Nothing in the current bill or its legislative history mandates a stay," Senator Frist replied. "I would assume, however, the federal court would grant a stay based on the facts of this case because Mrs. Schiavo would need to be alive in order for the court to make its determination."

Dr. Frist assumed wrong, the majority suggested. Indeed, the music of the panel decision was that Congress could not win. Had it passed the earlier version of the law, the courts might well have held it unconstitutional. The version Congress did pass, the panel majority said yesterday, was ineffective.

In the afternoon, the full 12-member appeals court declined to hear the case, with two judges publishing dissents.

By yesterday afternoon, both the White House and the Florida Legislature had cried uncle. Governor Bush, however, indicated he was prepared to fight on. Whether he prevails seems to depend on Judge Greer.

Professor Tushnet said that demonstrated how much power judges wield in the American system. "You can mess with Mother Nature," he said, "but it's really hard to do effectively. Mother Nature has a lot of tools at her disposal. So do judges."

Erwin Chemerinsky, a law professor at Duke University, said no one should take pleasure in these clashes. Just as hard cases make bad law, he said, "tragic cases make bad law".

- Adam Liptak


Take care all.