What would you do?

[Raistlin]

Breaking news!

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/24/schiavo/index.html

*skips the part about the Supreme Court*

On another legal front, Florida Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer on Thursday denied a petition of the state Department of Children and Families -- and Gov. Jeb Bush -- to take Schiavo into state custody.

Chalk one up for the good guys...

Wait...wtf? I'm watching Fox News right now...and there's this guy outside Greer's court live...and says a ruling hasn't been made yet. CNN also doesn't have anything...so how could cnn.com be updated with a ruling that hasn't even been made yet? O_o

I'll keep updating this post as I learn more.

EDIT2: Well, the judge made the decision posted above...I heard it from CNN and Fox News, yet cnn.com still has the same story...quite odd, if you ask me.

Anyway, Judge Greer denied the petition for Jeb Bush to put Terri in protective custody. This will probably be appealed, so this ruling opens up an avenue for this case to go back to the Supreme Court for a fifth time.

Also, on the news, the lawyer-guy for the Schindlers was talking about new medical evidence that suggests that she is not, actually, in a persistent vegetative state. However, he didn't mention any other doctor besides the one that made the diagnosis by chiefly looking at medical records(I repeat: he never actually saw Terri).

My prediction: Bush will rant, the parents will appeal to the Florida court of appeals based on new medical evidence. They will affirm Greer's decision. The parents will petition the Florida Supreme Court, who will dismiss. The parents will then file with the federal district court, and this is about when Terri will probably die. Even if she manages to hold on, I can't see any judge overruling 21 past rulings based on "expert" testimony based on medical records.

[Super Christ]

Bush is an idiot. Sorry, just had to get that one out.

Well, it is an extremely sad case. Sad that this happened 15 years ago, sad that this BS is still going on, sad that all these politicians are turning it into a farce, sad that the government is trying to look for ways to trample over separation of powers; I hope to god they never find a way. Bush is still an idiot, though.

This womans parents remind me profoundly of a chimpanzee mother whose baby has died, and yet continues to carry the corpse around and care for it as though it were alive.

The fact of the matter is, they're not ready to let go and admit their child is dead, although they've had 15 years longer to do so than most parents get.

[Miriel]

I haven't been so appalled and embarrassed by Bush, the religious right, and Congressional Republicans in a good while.

This is ridiculous.

When I was 8 years old, I refused to have my dog put to sleep. She couldn't walk, she was blind, she had tape worms and yet I still refused to let her go peacefully. But hell I was only eight years old and I've learned not to be so damn selfish since then. I'm a Christian, I believe in God, and I believe strongly in death with dignity. Of all people, those who believe in an afterlife should be willing to let Terri Schiavo die with as much grace as she can at this point. I hope after this is all over, those who have been fighting her right to die not out of selfish love but for political friggen gain are absolutely guilt-ridden. Bastards.

Chances are, God is looking down on this fiasco and shaking his head Unne-style.

[DarkLadyNyara]

I do pity her parents, and her husband. This woman is, for all intents and purposes, dead. And it's sickening that people are using it as a political tool.

[Luthien Rogue]

I do pity her parents, and her husband. This woman is, for all intents and purposes, dead. And it's sickening that people are using it as a political tool.

There is no proof that she is "dead." Terri still smiles and such. The only form of "life support" that she's on is the feeding tube. She can't feed herself? Big deal. Does that mean someone who's paralyzed, and therefore unable to feed themself, is dead? So we should kill them?

What if a child was born like this? Do you think the doctors and the courts would let the child starve to death?

Would any of you like to starve to death?

My grandma was said to be in a level 2 coma after the doctor did his "test." That's almost as bad as it can be. It means that they're not able to communicate, they're not aware of what's going on etc. Except my grandma smiled and laughed and cried, and she'd try to talk to us... she was alive, she was aware of what was going on. Doctors are not always right.

How many time haves doctors said "they won't survive" and they do?

The whole thing is a custody battle and not much more.

A custody battle that determines whether a woman lives or dies.

The husband has custody as he is the husband.

The husband hasn't taken much interest in her. The husband has a new life, with a new girlfriend. Suddenly, "this is what Terri told me, and no one else, not even her parents. She told me she would want to be taken off life support. I just forgot to mention this the past 15 years." You believe that? The parents are the ones who have always loved her and been there for her, and who want what's best for their daughter.

He said that should would have wanted to die and multiple other people have said the same thing.

She told everyone except for her relatives? That's interesting.

Doctors have said she is a vegtable. Parents = Selfish. Government = Retarded.

Doctors do not know everything. They have been wrong many times before. Parents = people that truly love Terri. Government = Retarded. Husband = Liar.

What if Terri is totally aware of what's going on and doesn't want to die? "I think she'd want to die. *pulls plug*" Can you imagine that happening to you? Wanting to live, but you can't tell anyone?

[The Captain]

"What if a child was born like this. Do you think the doctors and the courts would let the child starve to death?"

As was mentioned before, when Bush was Governor of Texas, he did just that because the child's family couldn't pay the medical bills.

This case is just about over now. The courts have repeatedly ruled that Congress has acted out of line here, which is true. This is really beginning to look like people gripping at straws instead of anything else.

Take care all.

[Luthien Rogue]

As was mentioned before, when Bush was Governor of Texas, he did just that because the child's family couldn't pay the medical bills.

Let me try again: Do you think any HUMAN would do that?

Edit - and paying for the bills isn't a problem, so the two cases can't really be compared.

[The Captain]

ZING!

Sure they can, both involved the same person calling the shots at the top. If he'd wanted to save that boy's life, he probably could have, but opted not to. Yet another good old flip-flop.

The thing is though, I believe about 20 different doctors all independently came up with the same results when they tested her. They wouldn't ALL be mistaken.

Take care all.

[udsuna]

Umm... her husband has been trying to argue that she wanted to die for the LAST TEN YEARS. He gave up after she hit the five year mark. The "ok, there's no longer any hope" mark. You could crack open the poor woman's skull, remove the front half of her brain, and replace it with oatmeal... she wouldn't know the difference.

The woman is dead, has been for a decade and a half. There is no hope for her. With the same certainty as you can say a guy without a parachute is dead after he leaps out of an airplane at 10,000ft. It's already over at that point, without some kind of miracle. And if a miracle's going to happen, you'd think it should have already.

As for her hubby and his new girlfriend. GOOD FOR HIM. He's moved on. After a few years, he should move on. I'm happy he could heal after something that horrible, some people couldn't.

[Luthien Rogue]

Umm... her husband has been trying to argue that she wanted to die for the LAST TEN YEARS. He gave up after she hit the five year mark. The "ok, there's no longer any hope" mark.

It took five years to hit that point?

You could crack open the poor woman's skull, remove the front half of her brain, and replace it with oatmeal... she wouldn't know the difference.

And can they prove this? Can you? There have been cases where a patient has been in a coma, totally aware of what was going on, listening to them say "we should pull the plug because there's no hope." The patient comes out of the coma, and tells them that they heard these things. They were alive. EVEN THOUGH the doctors said they weren't. Saying you could replace her brain with oatmeal and it wouldn't make a difference is not true at all. The woman laughs, moans when in pain, smiles etc. She is on no form of life support other than using a feeding tube (which many people have to use whether in a coma or not), meaning her brain is still in good enough condition to make her heart pump etc... you know, important stuff like that.

The woman is dead, has been for a decade and a half. There is no hope for her. With the same certainty as you can say a guy without a parachute is dead after he leaps out of an airplane at 10,000ft. It's already over at that point, without some kind of miracle. And if a miracle's going to happen, you'd think it should have already.

Oh really? One woman woke up after being in a coma for 20 years. One day she woke up, phoned her parents and said "Hi mum." Just like that. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1341552/posts Do some news searches and you'll find that some people haven't come out of comas for even longer than that. Doctors do not know for certain that she'll always be in a coma.

As for her hubby and his new girlfriend. GOOD FOR HIM. He's moved on. After a few years, he should move on. I'm happy he could heal after something that horrible, some people couldn't.

Excuse me, but I never said it wasn't a good thing. O.o I'm saying he has a new girlfriend. He needs to get a divorce and REALLY MOVE ON. He's in love with someone else. His motives are questionable to many people.

The thing is though, I believe about 20 different doctors all independently came up with the same results when they tested her. They wouldn't ALL be mistaken.

Nothing is for certain, and, again, there have been many cases where the doctors are wrong... many people have come out of comas before, even after 20 years of there being "no hope."

[The Captain]

I don't think she's in a coma. I think she's in a state much beyond a coma.

Take care all.

[Rase]

What's happened to Terri since her collapse?
The Second District's first opinion in this case explained:


Since 1990, Theresa has lived in nursing homes with constant care. She is fed and hydrated by tubes. The staff changes her diapers regularly. She has had numerous health problems, but none have been life threatening.

Over the span of this last decade, Theresa's brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs.
In a later opinion in the same case, the Second District further explained:


Although the physicians are not in complete agreement concerning the extent of Mrs. Schiavo's brain damage, they all agree that the brain scans show extensive permanent damage to her brain. The only debate between the doctors is whether she has a small amount of isolated living tissue in her cerebral cortex or whether she has no living tissue in her cerebral cortex.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html#qanda

If you don't know what the cerebral cortex does, click here.

Basically, see has lost or nearly lost all of the abilities listed on the page. I think that's more than a coma.

[udsuna]

Look, she's not in a coma. She's in a "Persistant Vegestative State". Which means, there is NOTHING LEFT. The part of her that thinks and feels is DEAD. That much has been proven and backed by dozens of experts and courts. She cannot, will not, recover... anymore than a amputee will grow new limbs. Whatever you want to call a mind or soul has already gone wherever human minds and souls go (and that much is deduction).

And HOW DARE YOU say that he doesn't still love her? One of the greatest loves of my life died... I still love her... granted, it hasn't been 15 years, but I will always love her. I moved on, I've had other loves, but I've never stopped loving her. I can't imagine how he wouldn't be the same way. He married her, he tried to have a child with her (which started all of this mess), and you have the nerve to say he doesn't love her? That's just cold, man.

[edczxcvbnm]

Luthien Rogue...Why did you quote what I said in another thead? IT MAKES NO SENSE?!

I would quote you but think the Captain has taken care of all the pwning that needed to be done for me.

[Luthien Rogue]

How so? She's aware of what's going on around her. She's keeping herself alive, although she can't feed herself. She responds appropriately to things that happen around her.

“I think it’s truly a miracle, that she hasn’t been able to communicate at all for 20 years and she’s talking,” says Dr. Bradley Scheel, Sarah’s doctor.

This girl could not communicate in any way (unlike Terri). Her eyes weren't even open for a long time. Then suddenly, out of the blue, she wakes up and everything is normal, even though she too had "no hope." Her situation was much worse than Terri's, and she'd been that way longer. But now she's living a normal life.

Edit -

Luthien Rogue...Why did you quote what I said in another thead? IT MAKES NO SENSE?!

Because it was about this same situation, but the thread was closed because it was a duplicated topic, so I couldn't respond there. So? Pwning? This isn't about owning or making stupid spelling errors on purpose. ^_^ Just trying to debate about a serious topic.