Mac, Barry and the Hall of Fame

[Strider]

For those of you who haven't heard, the Associated Press conducted a survey of 115 Baseball Hall of Fame voters to see whether or not they would vote Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds into the Hall of Fame after the congressional hearing last week. McGwire got a slightly less than glowing review, raking in only a 55% positive response from those polled, while Bonds received a more substantial 80%. To those keeping score, 75% of the 500 or so votes is required for entry into the Hall of Fame.

Now let's say you were one of those voters. Knowing what you know, would you vote either McGwire or Bonds into Cooperstown? Neither of them? Both of them?

Discuss.

[Dingo Jellybean]

Considering Bonds did testify to using steroids, I wouldn't. McGuire isn't even a shoe-in as far as I'm concerned. His response in the hearings were pathetic. I have absolutely no respect for him, and thus if I were a voter, neither of them would get in.

[eestlinc]

I don't see how steroids makes much difference. Vote based on their career output. If they cheated then they have to live with themselves. Both have/had deserving careers.

Besides, are we going to kick out every player in the hall who ever cheated? What about spitballers? How do we know players from earlier eras were's injecting horse hormones or doing other stuff to get an edge? What about all the players that have and still do pop speed to get an edge in games? What about players who played in all-white leagues when there were great black players that were excluded?

[The Captain]

Bonds should still get in because he was essentially a lock for the Hall before he became a home run hitter created out of steroids. At least three of his MVP awards were before he was a power hitter and was a more complete player who played Gold Glove D and stole bases. Though I'm not very fond of him, you can't deny he's a great player. Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth he's not, but he's still a Hall Of Famer.

As for McGwire, not so much.

Take care all.

[fire_of_avalon]

I wouldn't vote for either of them. So what if Bonds testified during the hearings? He was lying through his teeth about it just a few months back. I don't see how it makes him any better, telling the truth now. Thumbs down, thumbs down.

[Del Murder]

Bonds is in no question. Even without roids he was an elite player, and I don't even think the steroids are as big deal as the media is hyping it to be. Take away even 200 HRs for steroids and you still have a player with 500 HRs and 500 steals, 7 MVP titles, and a few batting titles. He's amazing.

McGwire is tougher because I am biased. I loved that A's team with Big Mac, Canseco, Ricky, Eck, all those guys. It seems pretty obvious that he was on it during that whole record chasing era, but who really knows what was going on then. Big Mac still enjoyed a great career and I think he deserves it. He screwed up by putting something in his body but baseball had the bigger screwup by allowing it, and it's not fair to condemn him for that mistake.

[Agent Proto]

Well, I think they should both be in, as well as Pete Rose. xP

Though, I think the Hall of Fame should be focused on their careers and on the field, not what they do off the field. However, not every voter will think the same way with this.

[Masamune·1600]

Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall.

[Kirobaito]

I agree, Shoeless Joe Jackson should be in the Hall. He definitely didn't throw that series (what, a .350 average with the only homer?).

But my opinion on this is iffy...I absolutely despise Barry Bonds. I think he should be thrown out of the game right now and never be allowed back in, but that's just me. McGwire, though, symbolized the American dream in 1998.

I can't really conclusively state my reasons why, but I would vote for McGwire, and not vote for Bonds. I guess it's because McGwire had a much better impact on the game than Barry ever did, from my memory of baseball.

EDIT: Probably the reason I hate Bonds so much is that, through steroids, he's about to break the most sacred record in sports. McGwire never got close to that.

[eestlinc]

See, I remember being 11 years old watching the Braves and Pirates play in the NLCS two years running. I loved the Braves but the absolute best player, the most fascinating one on the field, was Barry Bonds. He brought a magic to the game for me back then, and he continued to do so in 1993 as the Braves and his new team the Giants fought it out for the NL West title. McGwire was just some musclehead home run hitter to me, but Barry Bonds symbolizes the magic of the game, and he always will.

[The Captain]

If Rose gets in, so should Jackson. If Rose doesn't, Jackson still should, though by now I believe his family has made their peace with the situation.

What was McGwire's career Batting Average?

Take care all.

[Strider]

McGwire's career batting average was .263.

The main reason Shoeless Joe Jackson was barred from the Hall of Fame was that, despite the fact he played better than anyone else in on the 1919 Series fix (from what I read, he was miffed at the share of earnings he would collect), his failure to report the fix was just as bad in the eyes of Kenesaw Mountain Landis.

Rose is a little hazier, but as much as I love the guy for what he did in his playing days, I'd keep him from the Hall, too.

As far as McGwire goes, I'd have to think about it for a good long time. If you ignore his years in St. Louis and two injury years in Oakland, you're lookin' at a guy with 369 homers and about a .250 average. That's questionable. He was never a great postseason hitter, either, hitting only .217 with 5 HRs in 129 at-bats. Hmm.

Bonds, no question, even with my bias. He's got 703 home runs, sure, but he's only hit more than 50 in a season one time (in 2001 when he hit 73). For sake of comparison, Hank Aaron's career-high was 47. You know what that's called? Consistency. And even though he doesn't steal many bases anymore, he's still 61 of 72 since 1999 (85% for those keeping score). That doesn't even take into account the thefts before that. I could go on, but you'd all get tired of it.

[Dingo Jellybean]

Bonds is in no question. Even without roids he was an elite player, and I don't even think the steroids are as big deal as the media is hyping it to be. Take away even 200 HRs for steroids and you still have a player with 500 HRs and 500 steals, 7 MVP titles, and a few batting titles. He's amazing.

I completely disagree. Take away 200 HRs then he would average about 35-40HRs a year. Still great. But he wouldn't be "Feared" at the plate...thus less walks and less MVPs. Anyone who gets 200 walks is a guaranteed MVP IMO. Steroids also helps your bat speed, so you can knock down a couple of points, leaving bonds without a few of his batting titles. It also helps your foot speed...take away maybe 100 steals too. Then he would be somewhat of a slightly more polished Rafael Palmeiro. Still great. But if you were great before, there should be no reason to take steroids.

[Masamune·1600]

What's ironic is that Palmeiro has also been accused of steroids use.

[The Captain]

How many MVP's did Bonds win before he became a true power hitter?

Take care all.