Right.
Question, does Kishi even want to be unbanned after all this commotion?
Right.
Question, does Kishi even want to be unbanned after all this commotion?
That's one of the things I fear most about this ordeal, Miriel. Kishi may not want to be unbanned, and I would like to say that, if that was the case, this entire issue would be pointless. However, after the events of today, there is no turning back.
I wanna post a snow penis.
Also, Kishi unbanned: Yay.
I can see Shlup's reasoning. It's not like we've been 100% correct on all bannings. Even the law allows a fair amount of leeway. And it's not like Kishi did it to "take the easy way out", which seems to be the perception. I can see this as an honest mistake by an individual who has proven himself a brilliant and exemplary member of this community for the past four plus years.
Well, this seems to be a pretty one-sided thread, so I'm going to cut through this largely outrage-based posting. Yeah, I guess I'm being outrageous myself. But seriously, let's all get over ourselves for a second and consider some things.
1. What are you going to do about this? There's been a serious trend concerning ambiguity over posting obscene material here at EoFF, and this isn't the first time something like this has happened. Resigning from being a CK or Admin is a good way to express yourself, but I'm not sure if it really amounts to much more. I've been around over four years and this doesn't feel any different from the usual drama and hocus-pocus surrounding events that happen here. I have some solutions that have come off the top of my head here, and am listing them here for discussion.
a. Porn forum that is locked unless your birthday is valid.
b. Relax the rules to implement a warning system for porn.
c. Continue being in/consistent in implementation of rules.
2. Outrage: The only outrage I really see is from the staff. Which makes a lot of frickin' sense to me, because Kishi was reinstated not only as a member, but as a moderator. Most of the posts from regulars here amount to no more than "Yeah, he broke the no porn rule, but I didn't see it anyways, so whatever," or of course "Where's Peter?" Point is, people are going to see some CKs and Admin's resigning, say "Hey, way to stand up", express some distaste, but aren't going to do anything themselves. Maybe they'll say "I hate this place" and stop posting for a day or two, or maybe that'll be all they post. I'm not a mind reader, but I feel that aside from random "Unban Peter" or "Ban Kishi" statements in sigs, it's not going to amount to much more. There are two options I see here, neither of which seem appetizing:
a. Inflate the outrage until a large majority of the boards vote to ban Kishi.
b. Treat it as similar cases have been treated in the past - it never happened.
Ideally, this issue won't simply be washed over and some announcement will be made in General Chat addressing the issue. Naturally, it's tough to decide on a stance, but not dealing with it, or running away (as I interpret resignation from power), will only ensure the eventuality of another circus happening in the future. If the people in power aren't willing to face the issue, why are they in power? Aren't they the leaders and overall identity of the boards? I feel no qualms in defining the essence of the board to be who is on staff. I would hope the staff confronts this issue, comes clean with what exactly did and did not happen, and resolves this issue or resolves their policies such that there is no further inconsistency.
3. Cut the "I like Kishi" crap. Knowing him, I'm sure he doesn't want to hear how much people adore him and then bitch about what just happened. I'm not condemning expressing feelings about the situation, but I am condemning expression of said feelings interfering with just and clear-minded decision making. Whether that leads the people in power to banning him, removing him from moderation, presenting the situation to the entire board, sweeping the situation under the rug, or whatever else the people in power decide to do, let it be so.
I believe in an oligarchy, but leaders in an oligarchy don't quit.
I appreciate this thread being reopened for discussion.
Ah, so once you passed a certain point, you can make a "mistake" such as this? Then we need to do as Psy says: And also I think there needs to be a list of those who have "importance" and "status", so we know who can get away with anything.Originally Posted by Yamaneko
It's wrong, Yams. You told me once at FG that you were glad to have Divina back when she was unbanned, because she was your friend and you weren't on staff at the time, so you could have the benefit of being biased. You don't now.
The picture Kishi posted wasn't nearly as explicit as that "educational" site gokufusions posted.
It was suggestive, at worst, no nudity that wouldn't make it to a PG movie, it wasn't even two humans.
That's not the issue, Kane. The issue is that if you, for instance, had posted that image, you'd be banned without any of this staff discussion.
OK, so where's the difference between Kishi's situation and Peter's? Why does Kishi get away scot free and not Peter?
Because apparently staff has discretion on who's deserving and who's not, despite everything they've said for the past 5 years.
EoFF has some serious house-cleaning to do.
Peter made an honest mistake himself too. He had no intention to post the picture of a girl licking snow-balls, yet he got banned and stayed banned. Kishi made a similar honest mistake too, yet he gets unbanned after being banned..
Same concept here. Why Kishi was unbanned is beyond any reason besides being "important to EoFF," and that's very wrong. If Kishi stays unbanned, then I suggest that the porn = insta-ban policy be changed.
However, I won't support a change, because rules are to be followed, and no one should be made an exemption if they broke the rules.
Apparently, I have been declared banished.
You can say that again.
Thanks to Sagensyg for the sig!
I'm not saying, "oh, unban Kishi", but I am saying that we shouldn't crucify Shlup for her decision. Matt and Leeza seem to me to have "taken the easy way out" because discussion in staff is still going on. We're waiting to hear from Shlup. It wasn't very professional of them to just walk out before hearing her out. It's only fair.
No one should ever be unbanned because they are "favored", or are the "most popular." If you break the rules, you violate your agreement, and thus you must be banned from EoFF, or else the agreement and rules are forfeit. Since Kishi is unbanned, I guess I can post porn, but be unbanned by certain admins because of my status on IRC. No one is above the law. Rules were placed originally to keep order, so that life can go on in a normal way. Sure some rules may be unethical, or immoral, but they are there so that things like this don't happen. Too bad. Maybe we need to recycle the admins, bring the ones back that seemed to be most ethical, and put in new ones that everyone trusts?
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