Now we have no Feedback Forum.

[Loony BoB]

The main problem that I can see with this new PM system is the following: Let's say a member has a suggestion for EoFF, and PM's it to Loony BoB. Disaster strikes! BoB doesn't like this suggestion, so he decides not to raise it with the other staff. However, it just so happens that this idea is really wonderful and amazing and the staff would have enacted it had it been raised in Feedback, but due to the personal bias of Loony BoB, the great suggestion is not put into place.

And I'm not saying BoB would do this or anything, it's just that he's the only admin to have posted in this thread so he volunteered himself to be the example

All suggestions get put into staff. Half the suggestions you guys come up with, I've already come up with in the past, anyway. I found one of the really recent ones kind of amusing because I suggested it in staff and the idea got shot down pretty fast. The only difference between me and a few of you guys is that I don't consider it the end of the world when I don't get my own way. Also, I actually saw the point of view displayed against my idea and agreed with them. Hooray!

But yeah, if you guys ask a question about something that's been done, then you'll get an answer in PM, and it probably won't get discussed in staff since it's a question about something that's already happened. Any suggestions for the future, though, tend to get put into staff as far as I know. There are a few exceptions - eg, suggestions for Eizon improvements that were PMed to me - because they aren't to do with Staff as a whole but are to do with myself, who was the only staffer running Eizon. Any suggestions to do with Eizon on a forum-level that were sent to other mods/admins were posted into the staff forum saying "BoB, look at this, will you?" etc. So ner! We're awesome.

[Cz]

the feedback forum is gone. so?

Maybe you didn't use it, but to a lot of members it was extremely important.

[Miriel]

Ask me a question in private and I'll be much more considerate of it. I always find myself under pressure when posting in Feedback, and it tends to make me very, very defensive. I get PMs complaining about things and I make sure they're dealt with fairly. I think PMs are better for complaints and threads are better for general discussion (ie, "What do you think of _____?" kind of stuff).

But see BoBBie, questions and complaints are a little different than feedback. This here thread is a great example of what feedback should look like (well, minus the apparent bad feelings this thread is oozing with).

If Proto had PMed you and said, "hey, great job getting rid of Feedback, I like your hair...and your teeth" and had not made this thread, you couldn't have gotten any of these other responses.

Besides, I'm wary of PMs. Not quite sure why, but I am.

Yes, things got overblown this past week, but that was the fault of staff, not the members.

I don't think that's true.

[Raistlin]

So all the discussion and member input is null?

Members - we can't discuss anything among ourselves as to how the board's run. We have to let Staff discuss it. The most we can do is send a PM to a staffer, and ask them.

Feedback is the best and easiest way to get an overall view of what the members think. If that's what Staff considers unnecessary...well, goes to show what the Staff thinks of members' opinions.

EDIT:

I don't think that's true.

Now's not the place to discuss it, but ex-Staff members brought up the discussion in Feedback.

[eestlinc]

Science term for the month: Entropy.

[Chemical]

I'm sad to see it go, but considering recent events, I'm constrained to agree that it was the right decision.

I'll have to double that one.

I mean, the feedback forum was initially a way to allow members to interact with the forums on a different level. It was supposed to be a place where individuals could demonstrate "democracy" if you will, to state any suggestions, problems, issues that would allow members, not just staff, to impact the way in which the forums would evolve.

However, if the concept has been perveted.

Kill it.

If people can't utilize this opportunity maturely, then perhaps it just goes to show that the forums are better off without the insight of it's members...

Now that was the most atrotious thing I've ever said... It's really sad.


I think I'm going to go cry in a corner now.

PS)
I do earnestly hope that the ability for members to participate on this level isn't completely out of reach. I've always believed in a sense of unity amoung community by showing how important communication is.

Even this topic demonstrates a sense of feedback... Perhaps though, the feedback forums don't necessarily need to be around... but I always thought that instead of having a feedback topic (such as this, in the General Chat) it was more appropriate in it's own section because it would increase the attention it received from the staff.


I have a question:

Without the Feedback Forums will the staff take notice to issues and topics that members pose, in persay General Chat, or will these topics be skipped over more easily? Like a topic from an unrecognized member who doesn't seem to know what they are talking about... but might actually have something pertinant to say.

[Citizen Bleys]

I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm going to get ignored, I'd rather get a PM ignored than a thread in feedback. It's much more frustrating to be publically ignored.

[The Captain]

Though if a thread is ignored publically, the public can at least see that you and what you have to say has been ignored.

Take care all.

[Cz]

The whole point of removing the feedback forum was to prevent the sort of drama that occurred last week. Looking at this thread, it clearly hasn't done a very good job.

Yams and Raist have a very good point, and while PMing is one way of providing feedback, it isn't the best. Without mass member input it can't hope to be anywhere near as effective as a regular forum, and the board will be at a disadvantage because of it. I'd be willing to try out a PM system, but given the choice between that and a feedback forum, I'd take feedback any day.

[Raistlin]

With the Feedback forum deleted, those kinds of stupid suggestion-threads will only be put in GC. Removal of the Feedback forum was an immature, temporary solution to an imaginary problem. If the Staff wants to limit the spam in Feedback, go for it. If they want to limit the number of stupid smiley suggestion threads, go for it. But if they want to take away a place for members to publicly give Feedback, and to have member criticism/discussion? That's saying "we didn't like how you disagreed with us last time, so we'll make sure it doesn't happen again."

If people can't utilize this opportunity maturely, then perhaps it just goes to show that the forums are better off without the insight of it's members...

There were plenty of mature threads. My "'abusing' the Swear filter" thread, the "Serious or silly?" thread, the EoFF Constitution thread...and those are just the first three that popped into my head. All valid threads. As I said, if the Staff wants to limit the spam and unnecessary threads, that's fine. The spam isn't the members' fault - it's the fault of the lenience of the Staff.

[Shlup]

You guys have, I haven't.

That statement amuses me. So you're saying your one vote should outweigh the rest of the staff? Very few people think removing Feedback wasn't a good idea. You can't always get your way, Yams.

[Raistlin]

That statement amuses me. So you're saying your one vote should outweigh the rest of the staff? Very few people think removing Feedback wasn't a good idea. You can't always get your way, Yams.

Very few people in Staff, maybe. Oh, that's right - member input doesn't count! That's why you deleted the Feedback forum in the first place! Ok, I got it now. Silly me.

[Chemical]

Raistlin, although I feel you've taken my comments out of context, I do agree with the point you've just made. I was hoping to reach the same idea, though I suppose I was less clear in my intentions.

Another point I'd like the staff to take into consideration, are how topics are going to be differentiated if they are brought over into the GC.

There are topics that pose as actual issues. For instance "This Must Be Adressed" (or something to that extent) emits a sense of urgency.

Is it possible that issues will loose a sense of importance by placing them beside more general topics as previously stated?

[Shlup]

Very few people in Staff, maybe. Oh, that's right - member input doesn't count! That's why you deleted the Feedback forum in the first place! Ok, I got it now. Silly me.

This thread has provided us with enough member input to reinforce that removing Feedback was the right decision.

And this thread is also quickly beginning to demonstrate one of the main reason's Feedback was removed: bitter oldbies making snide remarks rather than actual feedback. You are now free to whine in PM, if it suits you. Your public feedback is not welcome at this time.

*closes*

[Del Murder]

I don't see bitterness. I see the mature discussion that Feedback was created for, and had.

I was really high on your handling of recent events, Shlup, but the way you and Roogle and BoB went about this Feedback closure was beyond unprofessional. Mine and Yams's arguments were basically ignored, and I didn't appreciate that.

I consider this a slap in the face. Feedback has always been the place where everyone knows your name, where you can relax and talk about the issues with people who actually care about the site. Recent events may have caused it to heat up a bit, yes, but is that any reason to abandon the smurfing place? What's with everyone abandoning eeverything recently? I swear you people need to grow some spines and stick with it in bad times. Without the Feedback forum us mods run around basically unrestrained, and that is a recipe for disater.

Sure the spam was bad, and I'll admit that I may have had a part in that, but hell, this place is supposed to be fun. Where has all the fun gone? If you don't allow us to kick back and have a few beers after arguing about the swear filter, then you'll have a very bitter forum on your hands.

Obviously from the poll and the opinions in this thread the members don't agree with this decision. I think they should be allowed the chance to at least give us (or you, as it were) reason to bring it back. I'm reopening this thread for that reason. I admire Yams for standing up for what he believes in and what is right. He is an American hero.