sasquatch you are again missing the point. torture cannot work as it only gains what the interrogator wants to hear.

america exports torture by happily sending prisoners to saudi, egypt, syria to have rather nasty things done to them. isn't that even a tad immoral to you? to send a man to be beaten and tortured?

and america is pulling people off the street because they look like terrorists or because you have habit of offering money for info (a serious problem in afghanistan with the northern alliance) that is how moazzam begg came to have his door kicked in. he was guilty of nothing and there was no evidence against him. bt he was imprisoned, beaten up, tortured, sent to saudi, tortured some more for 3 years. 3 years of his life. gone. for what? he wasn't the first and won't be the last. this is injustice of the highest kind. the brutal degradation of an innocent man for 3 years. if you had heard that story happening in germany 60 years ago you would be appauled. but instead you defend it?

and sasquatch for the last time i'll clarify my position. i will defend everyone's human rights, innocent or guilty, victim or murderer. i beluve everyone is a human being and should be treated as such. i don't just see "my people" as the only people with rights and the rest not worth scraping off the bottom of your shoe.

i don't believe in the torture of a man for any purpose. and i don't belive in the murder of innocents either.