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Thread: Brief History of Communism (and the work of Ronaldus Maximus regarding)

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    Default Brief History of Communism (and the work of Ronaldus Maximus regarding)

    Each president has reacted to the threat of communism differently. Differently than Ronald Reagan, that is. Otherwise, the record of appeasement to a regime that make the Nazis look like pikers is mostly the same sad story of appeasment and denial.

    Ronald Reagan was the first to take a different approach to the Cold War--namely, winning--and by some strange coincidence, the Soviet Union collapsed immediately thereafter.

    Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)--The October Revolution brought the Communists to power in Russia. Russia immediately siezed Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia, conglomerating into the Soviet Union, and delberately starved about 5,000,000 people to death.

    Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)--The Soviet empire expanded, adding Mongolia, Turkmenia, Uzekistan, Tajikistan, and Kirgizia.

    Herbert Hoover (1923-1933)--No new countries, but they did starbe between 5,000,000 and 15,000,000 (Lady Astor in 1931 asked Stalin, "When are you going to stop killing people?")

    Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1933-1945)--His first dipolatic act of office was to officially recognize the USSR as a nation. He referred to Stalin as "Uncle Joe", and helped him gain a prominent position in the UN. The USSR took over eastern Poland, Moldavia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estnia, and Albania, murdered another 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 people, and forced at least another 10,000,000 into slave labor.

    Harry Truman (1945-1953)--We lost China, the most populous nation on earth, when Truman cut off support to Chiang Kai-shek, leader of the Nationalist (White) army while Mao Te-Tsung, leader of the Communist (Red) army still had plenty of support from Russia. Among China's policies in the years after would be forced abortion, jailing and murder of Christians, and of course the invasion of Tibet. The communist Chinese government murdered between 34,000,000 and 64,000,000 of its own citizens, and another 1,000,000 or so Tibetans. Truman's government was riddled with Soviet spies, and in many cases, including the Alger Hiss affair, he eagerly helped defend them against the charges. The FBI identified other Communist agents, and Truman refused to remove them--including Harry Dexter White, who Truman appointed top US representative of the IMF. He also sold out the US after WWII, helping to cover Soviet mass-murders and downplay the Hitler-Stalin pact. He started the Korean war when he instructed one of his aides to note that if South Korea were attacked the US wouldn't defend it (North Korea attacked a few months later) and almost lost it through his micromanagement, prompting Gen. McArthur to claim that Truman "wouldn't let [him] win." Ho Chi Minh announced Communism in North Vietnam. On top of that, the Soviets took the other half of poland, a chunk of Germany, North Korea down to the 38th parallel, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia.

    Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)--The Korean War ended in a truce--we won no territory back but we did hold the reds at the 38th. Cuba fell to Communism under Fidel Castro--the first Soviet-backed Communist regime int he Western Hemispher. The Communist Vietcong instigated a violent insurrection in an attempt to conquer South Vietnam. John Foster Dulles proposed a "rollback policy" to "roll back" Soviet power in Eastern Europe, but it was proven to be hot air when the Red Army crushed a popular uprising in Hungary in 1956 and the US stood aside. The Soviet Union stole the Nuclear bomb (via the Rosenbergs) and exploded their first thermonuclear weapon, and successfully tested the first ICBM (InterContinental Ballistic Missile) almost a year ahead of the US. To add insult to injury, they launched Sputnik i a ways ahead of our space exploration.

    John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)--Humilated us in the Bay of Pigs incident, and lost the Cuban Missile Crisis; promising to pull our missiles out of Turkey and allow the Cuban communism to remain in place. The USSR detonated a 58-megaton thermonuclear devise--largest man-made explostion in history--and sent the first man into orbit. East Germany erected the Berlin Wall.

    Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)--Communist regimes established in South Yemen and Congo-Brazzaville China exploded its first Hydrogen bomb. In addition, LBJ horridly mismanaged the Vietnam War, pulling troops back from victory more than once, micromanaging the war, and choosing targets out of political expediency rather than strategic necessity. As an extra insult, he started federal programs that have since spent trillions of dollars for a "war on poverty"--a war which, apparently, the poor lost.

    Richard Nixon (1969-1974) A Marxist regime was established in Benin. Nixon provided the first serious resistance to Communism of any American president, however, by negotiating a truce between South Vietnam and North Vietnam in the Treaty of Paris; fixing the border and extracting a promise from North Vietnam not to attack. 20,000 troops remained in South Vietnam, who wouldn't see any combat unless North Vietnam did attack.

    Gerald Ford (1974-1977) The Democrat-controlled Congress forced through the Eagleton Amendment, which declared that no funds could be spent in Indochina--not only could we not send troops to help defend our allies, we couldn't send them ammo, weapons--even food and medical supplies. A few months later, North Vietnam attacked, backed by the Red Chinese. Outnumbered, out-supplied, out-gunned, and abandoned by their allies (us), the South Vietnamese still held off the Vietcong for almost a year. Once Communism took over all of Vietnam, thousands of Vietnamese "boat people" fled the regime. After Vietnam, Communists took over Cambodia and Laos in exactly the kind of "domino effect" that conservatives were laughed at (and, despite the obvious, are still mocked) for holding. In Cambodia, the Kmer Rouge leader Pol Pot murdered between 1,000,000 and 4,000,000 people--out of a population of 7,000,000. Communist regimes were also installed in Guniea-Bissau, Ethiopia, Angola, and Mozambique.

    Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)--Carter is so well known for being stupid, it's hard to remember he was also sneaky, petty, malicious, and vengeful. Soviet-backed Marxists came to power in Nicaragua, the Seychelles, and Grenada. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan.

    Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) Rather than free countries becoming communist, communist countries began to become free--for the first time since the Russian Revolution. Three Soviet-backed regimes began to crumble and one (Grenada) was taken back outright. By the end of Reagan's presidency, the Soviet Union was negotiating the terms of its surrender. He openly supported anti-Communist forces around the world, and allied with the Pope to provide aid to Solidarity, the anti-Communist union outlawed in Poland. He deregulated oil and slashed the Carter-ear inflation rate, and imposed a trade embargo on Russian goods--Russia's economy was a basket-case, and Reagan felled it. The finishing blow? Star Wars. Reagan even offered to share it with Russia, but they knew as well as we did that without the threat of thermonuclear strike, the USSR was just another third-world country.

    In November of 1989, the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan. On July 6, 1990, NATO announced that the Soviet Union was no longer an adversary, and on December 26, 1991, the USSR was formally dissolved.

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    Speaking of Reagan, toppling communism and the general ebb and flow of the world, I noticed there was little in there about Iran-Contra. I think that's an important element that needs to be added into this debate. As much as you may want to glorify him, it's important to stay as objective as possible.

    Take care all.

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    Speaking of Reagan, toppling communism and the general ebb and flow of the world, I noticed there was little in there about Iran-Contra. I think that's an important element that needs to be added into this debate. As much as you may want to glorify him, it's important to stay as objective as possible.
    Thank you. I don't understand how people can glorify Reagan after the whole Iran-Contra thing. In my book, that automatically makes him a bad president.

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    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    I'd also like to point out that the people who were murdered, were murdered by communist dictators - not by communism itself.

    The problem with Marxist philosophy is that it depends on one thing: a universal desire for equality and an abandonment of person greed. Communist systems always get overrun by those who want to further their own goals.

    ...Oh, and there were a few other methods used by US presidents in their quest to defeat the oh-so-evil threat of communism:

    *Giving weapons to the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, a group of militant Islamic cells, one of whom would eventually rise to power as the Taleban.

    *Aiding the work of anti-government, anti-Marxist terrorists in Central America, whose activities included the abduction, rape and murder of (communist) innocents as well as the bombing of civilian buildings, ships and harbours.

    *Ignoring atrocities such as Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet's involvement in the 'disappearance' and execution of some 20,000 communists.

    *Giving weapons and money to Saddam Hussein so that he could continue fighting his war against Soviet-backed Iran, a war that killed two million people.

    ..I could go on, but I think my point is clear: It's never simply a case of "good versus evil"; no one side can ever claim the absolute moral high ground.

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    Communism in and of itself isn't bad, it's actually rather admirable. It just doesn't work. The reason it tends to become a dictatorship is because you have to MAKE people change their minds in order for it to happen. It's hardly a "threat", and some ideas aren't too bad. As you may recall, we do use some socialist concepts in our own government as well, we aren't pure capitalist by any stretch of the imagination. Look at our medicare and education systems. Of course, the government's doing such a piss-poor job of maintaining that, but still, they ARE socialized.

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    Hitler was democratically elected. Does that make democracy bad?

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    Communism the way Marx wanted it has never been attempted.
    So, whether or not it works is practice is impossible to know.

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    Communism , yeah it's a nice idea , but in practical reality it just doesn't run smoothly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skogs
    Hitler was democratically elected. Does that make democracy bad?
    He was elected, but then usurped total sovereign power for himself. However, I see your point.
    Democratic states have done a lot of ill deeds in their time, but no-one ever blames their system of government for it.

    It's not the type of rule that matters, it's the type of rulers. Even dictatorships are fine if they're properly administered - just look at the United Arab Emirates, a small but prosperous and peaceful nation where one man has all the power, but uses it philanthropically.

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    OOC:I can always rely on Big D to elaborate on my glib one-liner posts.

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    First off, Hitler was not democratically elected to be dictator for life. While the system could be manipulated (such as via the burning of the Reichstag) to make him chancellor for a term, it required force, not democracy, to keep him there.

    Second, Communism has never once failed to bring hardship, suffering, and death to its own people. It has been a disaster everywhere it has been tried; and there's only so many times one can blame that on just having the wrong guy in office, just like you can only blame so many horrid Russian harvests on "bad weather".

    In Nicaragua, Reagan helped collect funds from various citizens, foreign countries, the Sultan of Brunei, and private organizations--in addition, Israel sold arms to Iran and some of those proceeds were diverted to the Contras while two heinous regimes bled each other a little longer instead of diverting their attention to the rest of the world. This may or may not have violated the Boland Amendment. Later it was repealed, funding was resumed, and wonder of wonders, Nicaraqua had elections--which probably wouldn't have been possible if the anti-communists hadn't had the aid to stay in one piece through the time beforehand.

    "When Democrats scheme from the White House, it's to cover up the president's affair with an intern. When Republicans scheme, it's to support embattled anti-Communist freedom fighters sold out by the Democrats."
    --Ann Coulter

    Not everyone in Afghanistan was a nice guy. Neither was Sodom, nor Pinochet, nor was everyone in Nicaragua. Neither was Stalin, for that matter, and yet we allied with him in WWII to face a greater threat; and everyone except those who actually sympathize with the Nazis realize that this was a correct and necessary maneuver. That's war, and we didn't have time to wait for the Iraqi, Chilean, Afghani, or Nicaraguan version of Thomas Jefferson to come around before combating an empire that slaughtered more than 100 million of its own citizens and intended to take over the world--it's not exaggeration to say these guys made the Nazis look like pikers.

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    "Ann Coulter, she means well, but she really over embelishes and oversimplifies things too much to be taken seriously." - Richard Perle as quoted on Face The Nation, July 16, 2004.

    Coming from RICHARD PERLE of all people, that's saying something.

    "it's not exaggeration to say these guys made the Nazis look like pikers."

    I'd say that is. Nothing compares to Nazism, no matter how you slice it.




    Take care all.

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    [:D] And yet, she still manages to be right.

    But as for which is worse....

    Communism:
    35 million in Russia.
    64 million in China
    1-3 million (out of a total population of 7 million) in Cambodia
    1 million in Tibet
    1 million in Vietnam

    Nazism:
    6 million Jews
    7 million assorted Protestants, Catholics, Atheists, Communists, Gypsies, political 'dissidents' and others

    In comparison...
    45 million, total of World War II
    40 million, worldwide, influenza epidemic of 1918
    20 million, Black Death, Europe 1348-49
    700 thousand, estimated, killed in Roman Coliseum for entertainment
    600 thousand, US War of Northern Aggression
    350 thousand, Nuclear Bomb deaths
    36 thousand, Krakatoa tsunami
    8 thousand, 1900 Galveston hurricane--largest natural disaster in the US
    7 thousand, Chernobyl

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    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    35 million people were killed during Japan's occupation of China in the 1930s-40s. This proves that having an Emperor causes death.

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    So what are you trying to say? That all the forms of communism the human race has ever undertaken has turned into a frenzy of genocide and chaos?

    Well. Yeah. Anyone who knows history understands that much.

    However, that doesn't mean the basic principles of communism = frenzy of genocide and chaos. It means that human beings suck and you can't put a nickel's worth of faith into a governing body controlled by one faction embracing one mindset with one agenda, that being WORLD DOMINATION!!!!!!!!one one etc etc etc

    Or are you saying that communism is worse than Nazism? Because again, I'd have to disagree. The tenets of communism are good, but have been very badly manipulated by world leaders practicing communism. The tenets of Nazism are nothing but awful, and made even more awful by evil people who practice it.

    So. Yay democracy! *waves flag and eats pie*

    Signature by rubah. I think.

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