more politely phrased summary by eest: I generally disagree with your statements, lionx. Pedophiles deserve to be in jail. I know people who committed suicide because they were molested as children.
more politely phrased summary by eest: I generally disagree with your statements, lionx. Pedophiles deserve to be in jail. I know people who committed suicide because they were molested as children.
to live is to die
One in twelve molestation victems will commit suicide. The risk of them abusing drugs goes up to 50/50. The risk of them abusing *heavy* drugs like cocaine, speed, heroin and crack goes up to 1 in 4. With the standard O.D. rates.
And there are thousands who suffer silently, that we will never know of... not to mention those that the molesters kill right after the rape, to shut them up the most effective way.
Yes sex is part of a relationship, its up to the people in the relationship to make it how huge. Pedophilla doesnt require sex, and despite what you think i have upmost confidence that it will be fine between the 18 and 14 year old. Not everyone is a sick bastard, some people actually want a real relationship, and since you arent even in the relationship how do you know? Give them a chance and you shall see.
Sat: Right molesters, not every pedo out there is a molestor, just like how that guy next to you might be into a fetish you arent in, but arent a molestor.
Originally Posted by udsuna
(Since these statistics were asked for...) I didn't know this, but I did know that typical gunshot wounds have a 3% fatality rate. Much lower than one in twelve. Of course, that's also not including unintentional drug overdoses, as you mentioned. One in twelve...that's sad.
Destai, I don't think I've ever seen a 14-year-old that I could confuse for an adult. I looked much older than I was, especially when I didn't shave (hell, when I was 15 some schmuck kid asked me to buy chew for him, and when I was 17 some moron asked me to buy beer), but I don't think I could have passed for 18 when I was 14. And even so, it's not like a relationship can get started and love grow to that much of a bond before somebody figures out how old their partner is, usually that's something that comes up in the first conversation. A 14-year-old possibly looking like she's 18 doesn't make anything any better. (By the way, underage girls can get into bars because they're ladies, did you never realize that? If the same girl tried to buy cigarettes, unless the guy at the counter was hitting on her, she'd be carded.)
Also, i think its worth noting that, the age thing for relationships is fairly new. only like within the last 150years has it really changed. In old times, it was pefectly normal for a girl who was 14 to be getting ready to be married to a much older man. 18 and 14 isnt really a big difference in age. granted, i didnt really read the post before this one so idont know what was say about this age thing, but i just want to say that its not really that big of a deal. I mean, its just like being a senior in highschool and your talking to a freshman. not that big of a deal. I wouldnt have a relationship with no girl that young, but i dont think i would think to much about it if i saw someone else doing it.
[q=Sasquatch]
A 14-year-old possibly looking like she's 18 doesn't make anything any better. (By the way, underage girls can get into bars because they're ladies, did you never realize that? If the same girl tried to buy cigarettes, unless the guy at the counter was hitting on her, she'd be carded.)[/q]
Yeah, this is true. Girls that are underage usually only get into the club because they look good. Sometimes, they arent really fooling anybody but themselves. I dont know though man, when i was 15/16 i was buying my own beer without being carded. I guess i mustve looked a little older than i really am. Like, i tell people at work that im only 19 and they dont believe me. Somone accually thought i was in my late 20's.
I've been reading this thread a lot lately, and this is what I see wrong with your argument. You have your head up in the clouds saying "Some people just like children, but their intentions are pure! Give them a chance and you'll see!" This belief is naive at best. Have you considered the risk of said chance? What if they're motivated solely by their carnal desires, and would do anything to satisfy them? Most parents wouldn't be willing to take that risk with their children just to see if a pedophile has pure intentions.
Sexual relations between an 18-year-old and a 14-year-old is different, though, so I see where you're coming from. It's difficult to draw the line sometimes.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY
(1) Eric Clapton is God.
(2) Therefore, God exists.
Good point. However, 150 years ago, it was acceptable to smack your wife around when she wasn't doing what you told her, too, and a "divorce" was unheard of. Definitely, though, in the past, ladies were able to get married in their early teens.
ok..mostly of my statements were sensoredso this will be short.....pedos should be shot or at least be in jail for life. and since my comments got sensored it ruined my point..i think i cursed to much or something. and to those who accept pedos....u should get help too
to live is to die
Doc:
How is it naive? Its the same concept of how some people think all gay or bisexual people are all for the sex and not for the relationship. But you know that is not true.
I considered the risks, but the point is that when i talk about the said chance, the assumption that carnal desires are not the primary concern and it is the relationship. If you are going to put carnal desires there then its no different than some person that is having casual sex out there. I am going for the relationship...not the sex itself only, because other than that its casual sex and its not applicable because i am not talking about that.
Plus what you described is just the molestor and/or the casual sex person. I am not talking about those people, i am talking about people who actually want a relationship but have pedophilla. Parents dont even like some kids dating at a younger age, but that doesnt stop some kids anyway.
I dont think there ever will be a clear cut line IMO, its up to the individual people to decide unless some law is passed..which i hope never will.
Sat: Maybe if you ever get a fetish that isnt widely accepted or is considered taboo you should get shot too >_>
Please, Lionx, for the love of whatever it is that you hold sacred, don't have children. Any decent parent... would make damn sure to keep their children away from that kind of sick scum. Look, I don't care about other sexual fetishes, sex is sex, and as long as it hurts no one, I'll let it go. I'd usually prefer they stay far away from me, but, whatever.
But even a "romantic relationship" (saying that makes me sick in this situation) that is WITHOUT sex is hell on a child. You don't get it, the sex isn't the cause of most of the problems, the exploitation (and I don't care what's going through the mind of the Pedo, what the intention is, he or she is STILL exploiting the child) does the most grievous harm. It's sick, and it devestates the child's life, and it usually makes it so they can't develop healthy relationships of their own.
You've never seen what it does, Lionx, I have. I've seen it as closely as one can without actually experiencing it personally. I've talk to the victims, I've even talked with the pedophiles themselves. I can't help but cry when I think about it. Whether in sorrow, or in rage, I don't know... some kind of confused mix, I think. But the tears are no less real for it.
There is no middle ground, there can BE no middle ground. And you are naive to think that those people wouldn't try to engage the subject sexually!?! Most of them are sick enough to believe they're actually "in love" with their victims. And they're sick enough to try and consumate their "love"... then again, to be honest, I like consumating my love as well... but I have a consenting, adult, partner.
Oh, and so you don't have any illusions about "love"... pedophiles that end up in a long-running "relationship" with their victim, lose interest entirely when the child developes too far into adulthood. It isn't love the pedophile seeks, it's lust and control... otherwise, they'd seek their feelings in a more equivilant partner.
Those few pedophiles who actually fight their condition, those are the ones with the real love, those are the ones who care enough not to destroy the children they lust after.
Like I said, there can be no middle ground, no compromise, not on this issue.
Well thats the thing, you probably have. Im speaking more about tennage girls, Its alot easier for them to make a 14 year old girl look 18 than a boy at that age. From the age of 13 and up ,I dont consider it peadophilia. Just inapropriate in a way that isnt that of a peadophile.
Why exactly should they be shot? They havent done anything wrong. If you were to learn the difference between a peadophile (someone who finds children attractive) and a child molester (someone who molests children) and were to replace one word with the other in your posts then yes, Id see where you're coming from but jailing or killing someone for thinking a certain way is ridiculous and if that seems logical to you then you're a nutjob or an immature little kid.ok..mostly of my statements were sensored so this will be short.....pedos should be shot or at least be in jail for life. and since my comments got sensored it ruined my point..i think i cursed to much or something. and to those who accept pedos....u should get help tooThat makes sense to me but a child will never be mature enough to have a relationship with an adult. Theyre brains and body arent developed or matured enough to take part in a relationship and any adult that would still have a relationship with a child is a manipulator.How is it naive? Its the same concept of how some people think all gay or bisexual people are all for the sex and not for the relationship. But you know that is not true.
I dont think most people are sick, just different is all. I can have children if i want to, and i certainetly would be wary of someone looking at my child like that. Because as i said more often than not it does result in harm, i just think there is a chance that not all of it could be despite what we see.
Its not self-fish and unethical if the child is consenting, while i do understand that the child might not understand any of this that doesnt mean that every child might be like that. Its possible but just not likely IMO. But it also depends how old, i mean someone 13 might be fine i would think(over 13 is mostly where i consider them smart enough to a degree). Children are not always vulnerable anyway, alot of them are very underhanded especially once they reach the 4th grade.
I am sorry that most people you talked to are hurt that way, however saying that they are uncontrollable raging hormone monsters is just wrong. They are people too. Some might not have control(maybe alot) but some might.
Plus how do you know when you are in love anyway? If they are "sick" enough to believe they are in love does that mean that you are sick as well for loving a guy as the current prejudice goes. I think its rare that it will end up working but it could, doesnt mean it would but it could even though its low chance.
Equivalent can mean many things, some think homosexual relationships arent equivalent. While i do agree that they might lose interest later i dont think the love should diminish else you can say you wont love your wife because she is sexy now but not later when she gets older. How do you know its ALWAYS lust and control? Are you one of them? Maybe some said that but i really dont think it can be an always case.
I believe there could be, although as rare as it can be, maybe i am too idealistic and trying to understand the other side that could be good as well. But i still think of them as people whereas some of you think they arent and i dont think someone that is a pedophile, just because he is one makes him any less of a person.
Destai: Maybe..but not necessarily an manipulator i guess. I can see where it can go but it doesnt necessarily have to be manipulative, at least, if i somehow was to be the person i wouldnt. Unless you count just starting the relationship to be manipulative. If you really like the person you can wait for them to reach an older age if you really liked even before any real relationship goes and that wouldnt be manipulative would it?'
My view is that, i dont think every pedophile out there is a monster like some of you people label them as.
But the maturity levels between the two, more likely than not, are not at the same level, and a relationship probably wouldn't end up working. I ended up having to learn this the hard way, when I wanted to pursue a relationship with a 13 year old.
Yeah its true that they might not be, but the 14 yr old has been in relationships too and he does seem alot more mature than alot of other 13-15 year olds out there. He even talked about the future that they are going to work out on and differences and the sort. I dont believe theres many like that out there though which is why i feel in this case its more the exception than the norm...but just goes to show its not impossible for a larger age gap(in which most people csonsider to be..2? is it?).
A relationship that's between people of those two ages isn't bad if it isn't sexual. People just shouldn't be having sex at 14. I'm not even saying it as an adult, I am 14, and I know I'd never have sex at my age. Even 16 is a bit too young, in my opinion. The reason people are mostly against those types of relationships is that the older person may be wanting more or the younger person may not be the most mature at that age, though that is not always the case.
Paedophilia for me is sex or any other type of relationship that's above a brother-sister/parent-offspring/aunt-niece/etc between a person who's of age or at least close to it (15+ I guess?) and someone who hasn't hit puberty. Like a 15+ year old person and 5 year old. Sex between an 18 year old and a teen is just not a good idea.
A child is someone who has not hit puberty yet. Essentially, that's about 11 years and younger. An 8 year old is not going to be consenting, truly. They might say yes, and they MIGHT even have some idea, but they won't know what's going on, how it's going to affect them later in life. It's just not right.Its not self-fish and unethical if the child is consenting, while i do understand that the child might not understand any of this that doesnt mean that every child might be like that. Its possible but just not likely IMO. But it also depends how old, i mean someone 13 might be fine i would think(over 13 is mostly where i consider them smart enough to a degree). Children are not always vulnerable anyway, alot of them are very underhanded especially once they reach the 4th grade.
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